God's Truth
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Sounds as if you do not know what it is to have the Holy Spirit.
ECT Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism
- Thread starter turbosixx
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Sounds as if you do not know what it is to have the Holy Spirit.
No doubt at all God keeps His word ... but .... lot's of different beliefs, opinions with what God's word says .... i.e. interpretations, theologies etc. about many beliefs. The differences are what people discuss. Because we have differences of what one believes ... does that mean we know for sure that one is "saved" and the other "not saved"? I do not question who is saved and who is not saved, because I do not know .... only God knows ... and in the end .... nobody will really know until Jesus returns and it actually happens.
There is no "but".
Grace
All have been under “grace” from the beginning. Adam and Eve.
Genesis
21 And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.
First prophesy in the Bible pointing to Jesus Christ Messiah to come. God provided the First sacrifice Himself (animal sacrifice) pointing to the Messiah (OT) to come and then God Himself did provide His son John 3:16 (NT) the final sacrifice for all sin.
Those believing in the coming promised Messiah in the old testament under grace, “clothed by the blood of Jesus” to come.
Those after His (Jesus) 1st coming … under grace “clothed by the blood of Jesus” through His actual coming.
Hebrews 10
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,and write them on their minds,”
17 then he adds,
“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
All believing in Jesus Christ Messiah OT or NT have always been under grace and covered by His blood.
All have been under “grace” from the beginning. Adam and Eve.
Genesis
21 And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.
First prophesy in the Bible pointing to Jesus Christ Messiah to come. God provided the First sacrifice Himself (animal sacrifice) pointing to the Messiah (OT) to come and then God Himself did provide His son John 3:16 (NT) the final sacrifice for all sin.
Those believing in the coming promised Messiah in the old testament under grace, “clothed by the blood of Jesus” to come.
Those after His (Jesus) 1st coming … under grace “clothed by the blood of Jesus” through His actual coming.
Hebrews 10
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,and write them on their minds,”
17 then he adds,
“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
All believing in Jesus Christ Messiah OT or NT have always been under grace and covered by His blood.
Untrue.
The ministry of the apostle Paul began this dispensation of grace through faith alone, without works of the law.
Colossians 1
(26) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Romans 16
(25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Ephesians 3
(1) For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
(2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
(3) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
(4) Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
(5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Hi and if that is true , explain how people were saved , beginning with Adam to Moses as it is written in Rom 5:14 ??
dan p
By faith...
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Rom. 14: 5; 5: 6-8.
Hi and what then is the gospel that God gave Adam through Moses ??
Was it SACRIFICE or DIE ??
Or SHEEP GOSPEL ?
Or Jehovah Gospel ??
You will think of something ??
I wonder where BAPTISM and TONGUES were in Gen 4:4 ??
dan p
faith and grace ..... faith was a "given", referring to Adam and Eve onwards of those who trusted in God.
Grace
All through the pages of Scripture, grace is portrayed as God’s unmerited favor. It is God’s willingness to save us when we don’t deserve it.
Faith
faith is a trust relationship with God
So, those who Trusted God in the OT and NT were saved by faith under grace, and so are we.
Grace
All through the pages of Scripture, grace is portrayed as God’s unmerited favor. It is God’s willingness to save us when we don’t deserve it.
Faith
faith is a trust relationship with God
So, those who Trusted God in the OT and NT were saved by faith under grace, and so are we.
Same answer, Mr ever insistent on your black or white conclusions alone. :chuckle:
Same answer - the grey ever in between those two - that faith in what God expects the particular individual to place his or her faith in.
"As it is written, The just shall live by faith."
Nevertheless, Rom. 14:5 towards you DP - in memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.
TRUE
Genesis 6:8
Hebrew
Str Translit Hebrew English Morph
5146 [e] wə-nō-aḥ וְנֹ֕חַ But Noah Noun
4672 [e] mā-ṣā מָ֥צָא found Verb
2580 [e] ḥên חֵ֖ן grace Noun
5869 [e] bə-‘ê-nê בְּעֵינֵ֥י in the eyes Noun
3068 [e] Yah-weh. יְהוָֽה׃ of the LORD
favor = grace
KJV:
Exodus 33:12
HEB: וְגַם־ מָצָ֥אתָ חֵ֖ן בְּעֵינָֽי׃
NAS: found favor in My sight.'
KJV: and thou hast also found grace in my sight.
INT: have also found favor my sight
Numbers 32:5
HEB: אִם־ מָצָ֤אנוּ חֵן֙ בְּעֵינֶ֔יךָ יֻתַּ֞ן
NAS: we have found favor in your sight,
KJV: they, if we have found grace in thy sight,
INT: If have found favor your sight be given
Ruth 2:2
HEB: אֲשֶׁ֥ר אֶמְצָא־ חֵ֖ן בְּעֵינָ֑יו וַתֹּ֥אמֶר
NAS: I may find favor. And she said
KJV: I shall find grace. And she said
1 Samuel 20:3
HEB: כִּֽי־ מָצָ֤אתִי חֵן֙ בְּעֵינֶ֔יךָ וַיֹּ֛אמֶר
NAS: that I have found favor in your sight,
KJV: that I have found grace in thine eyes;
INT: for have found favor your sight has said
Many others
There is a grace throughout the Scripture, true...
But there is also a dispensational grace.
Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
That being what?
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Hunh? Come again?
3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Quit being evasive!
...
Oh, you mean like when "Noah found grace"?
No, not that one. This one here is one...
3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
What in the world are you rambling on about Paul - I follow Jesus!
Yeah, but that you as a Gentile are even able to say that NOW is due only to this "dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward."
Yeah, sure, if you say so...But no, really - I'm all about being Acts 17:11,12 about these kinds of...well, at least this time around - what in the world are you rambling on about, that I might then search the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so?
What is this so called "dispensation of the grace of God" that you are rambling on about?
3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Oh? And what gospel is that - for I follow Jesus...pray, do tell, what gospel is this that you are now changing the subject with?
3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Paul, you are confused out of your gourd - I follow Jesus - you know "away in a manger" and Joseph, and Mary, and the three Wisemen, and all the rest - and besides - you STILL haven't told me what this, this, this "dispensation" is that you ALONE are forever rambling on about - I swear, Paul, you and your "followers" remind of this...
Acts 26:24 And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad. 26:25 But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.
You just don't get it, do yoi, Paul? :doh:
In short, eleos, welcome to TOL - where your "one size fits all" fits right in with all the others on here who believe they hold to the following Three-Fold Principle, but who clearly do not...
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that...
1 - they received the word with all readiness of mind, and...
2 - searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12...
3 - Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
Nevertheless, Rom. 5: 6-8 towards you.
Hi and only one INTEPRETATION and some say many applications , like you , you get an F for no ANSWER !!
dan p
Baptism is not required for salvation.
Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
God's Truth
New member
The blood of Jesus had to be shed before anyone could be covered by the blood.
Jesus' blood washes away our sins and makes us perfect and holy. Abraham wasn't even made perfect and holy until Jesus shed his blood on the cross.
Jesus came to reconcile us back to God. That happens when God lives in the saved and the saved live in Jesus.