ECT Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

[Danoh]

The problem is that you are going against Christ and hindering yourself and others.

I can't say I blame ya - I never was big on the smorgasbord approach to Bible study, but for a few months after I first cracked opened a Bible to begin to study things out on my own; just me and The Book.

Just a few months into it, I began to note various "things that differ."

WAY before I'd ever known of Dispensationalism, even in general, let alone of Mid-Acts, in particular.

I recently ran across the following video, and found its assertions are much like my own.

I challenge you, GT - or anyone on here, for that matter - to hear out the entire message on this video, take copious notes throughout, and return here to attempt to point out its good, and its bad.

Or not.

That is each everyone's perogative, as I am not the One Who will test one day "every man's work of what sort it is." 1 Cor. 3:13.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD7C6KYCd4&app=desktop

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[eleos]

Can a person lose their salvation?

 

[God's Truth]

I can't say I blame ya - I never was big on the smorgasbord approach to Bible study, but for a few months after I first cracked opened a Bible to begin to study things out on my own; just me and The Book.

Just a few months into it, I began to note various "things that differ."

WAY before I'd ever known of Dispensationalism, even in general, let alone of Mid-Acts, in particular.

You can study the Bible all you want and it will not mean you have the truth.

Do you know how many people study the Bible and are Catholic priests, Mormon "Prophets", Calvinists, experts of all kinds who went to college?

Answer that question. Really, answer it.

Now tell me what difference it makes between the many lost people in false doctrines and you.

I recently ran across the following video, and found its assertions are much like my own.

I challenge you, GT - or anyone on here, for that matter - to hear out the entire message on this video, take copious notes throughout, and return here to attempt to point out its good, and its bad.

Or not.

That is each everyone's perogative, as I am not the One Who will test one day "every man's work of what sort it is." 1 Cor. 3:13.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD7C6KYCd4&app=desktop

Rom. 5:6-8.

No one needs to watch that video because it is suggested by you.

It is suggested by you, a person who thinks studying the Bible gives him knowledge.

You don't even get that there are people more educated than you who have studied the Bible and come up with completely different stuff.

You are in falseness and it is so pathetic.

Now tell me if I should find the person with more education than myself so that I could believe as they teach.

 

[Right Divider]

You can study the Bible all you want and it will not mean you have the truth.

You're certainly proof of that!

 

[God's Truth]

You're certainly proof of that!

Listen to me for a minute. You tell me, if a person is at home, and says to God they want to be saved more than anything in this world, what would you tell them? Stay with me on this. Let me show you that what I am saying is the truth. Will you answer the question?

 

[Danoh]

Can a person lose their salvation?

Not according to Romans chapters 3 thru 5 and into chapters 6 thru 8.

That is IF one does not subscribe to the pick and choose smorgasbord STUDY APPROACH of the newbie and or of the newbie having remained incompetent.

Do yourself a favor - read Romans 1 thru 8 a minimum of 25 times or so.

Just reading thru it some 25 times.

See what picture of the facts of its assertions gradually begins to emerge for you.

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[turbosixx]

That scripture is said to those who had an apostle there and a water baptism ready to be done. Peter was ready to preach the message that saves and to have people water baptized afterwards.

Mk. 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Who this is said to doesn't change the order of saved before "and is" baptized. If it is as you say, Jesus would have said is saved then be baptized. Jesus didn't say make disciples by them "accepting the message", he said baptize them in the name of.
Philip wasn't an apostle but he baptized believers.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Did this man have to go find an apostle to be saved?

Cornelius and his whole household were saved first and are a testament against your false denomination's teachings.

You do realize you're taking one special conversion and using it to going against all other conversions and all the rest of scripture.
Acts 11:15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
Peter hadn't seen this since Pentecost and never saw it again.

 

[DAN P]

Not according to Romans chapters 3 thru 5 and into chapters 6 thru 8.

That is IF one does not subscribe to the pick and choose smorgasbord STUDY APPROACH of the newbie and or of the newbie having remained incompetent.

Do yourself a favor - read Romans 1 thru 8 a minimum of 25 times or so.

Just reading thru it some 25 times.

See what picture of the facts of its assertions gradually begins to emerge for you.

Rom. 5:6-8.

Hi and here is my answer !!

Here is just one answer in Rom 8:35-39 !!

Here is just one of many answer to salvation , Rom 10:9 YOU WILL BE SAVED !! WILL BEEEEEEEEE !!

Here is one more in Gal 3:28 and the last 8 words read , " for you ARE / ESTE all one in Christ Jesus !!

The Greek word ARE / ESTE is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and means you are always in Christ FOREVER !!

The PRESENT GTENSE MEANS CONTINUOUS action " in Christ " for ever !!

dan p

 

[God's Truth]

Not according to Romans chapters 3 thru 5 and into chapters 6 thru 8.

That is IF one does not subscribe to the pick and choose smorgasbord STUDY APPROACH of the newbie and or of the newbie having remained incompetent.

Do yourself a favor - read Romans 1 thru 8 a minimum of 25 times or so.

Just reading thru it some 25 times.

See what picture of the facts of its assertions gradually begins to emerge for you.

Rom. 5:6-8.

1 John 2:24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.


IF IT DOES? If it does? As for you, SEE THAT WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD REMAINS in you. IF IT DOES YOU WILL REMAIN IN HIM.

You say that IS NOT a warning to the SAVED?

Read these scriptures:

1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Galatians 3:4 Have you experienced so much in vain--if it really was in vain?


Did you read those two scriptures?
Did you see how they speak about believing in vain? Do you understand what they mean? And what don't you get about the word 'if'?

Read these scriptures:


1 Corinthians 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

Romans 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.



Did you read how those scriptures warn not to fall?
What are the saved being warned to not fall if they cannot?


Read these next scriptures.
Do you see how we should not fall into God's judgment?


Romans 2:3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

1 Corinthians 11:31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.


Do you not understand the saved are being warned?


Read this next scripture:

1 Timothy 3:6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.


Does that sound okay to you?

 

[God's Truth]

Mk. 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,

That is because the apostles at that time water baptized right after a person was saved.

That is just the way it happened during the laying of the foundation.

We don't have apostles telling us the true gospel and convincing us with miracles and wonders and then water baptizing us.

but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus tells us all that we must believe in him.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."


And many more.

Who this is said to doesn't change the order of saved before "and is" baptized. If it is as you say, Jesus would have said is saved then be baptized. Jesus didn't say make disciples by them "accepting the message", he said baptize them in the name of.
Philip wasn't an apostle but he baptized believers.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Did this man have to go find an apostle to be saved?

You do realize you're taking one special conversion and using it to going against all other conversions and all the rest of scripture.

You should be more careful what you say. If the truth means anything to you then be more careful. I have not done what you claim. I preach that one can be saved before a water baptism, and sometime after. You are the one who is going against people Jesus saved if they did not get water baptized first, as taught by your false doctrine in your church.

Acts 11:15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
Peter hadn't seen this since Pentecost and never saw it again.

You just mentioned two times that it had happened. So stop speaking against it. As for you trying to say what Peter saw through out all his years of preaching, you should be quiet.

 

[God's Truth]

Danoh,

Here are some more scriptures for you:

Matthew 5:13
[ Salt and Light ] “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

Matthew 8:12
But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Luke 13:28
“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

Luke 14:35
It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out. “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”

 

[Danoh]

Hi and here is my answer !!

Here is just one answer in Rom 8:35-39 !!

Here is just one of many answer to salvation , Rom 10:9 YOU WILL BE SAVED !! WILL BEEEEEEEEE !!

Here is one more in Gal 3:28 and the last 8 words read , " for you ARE / ESTE all one in Christ Jesus !!

The Greek word ARE / ESTE is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and means you are always in Christ FOREVER !!

The PRESENT GTENSE MEANS CONTINUOUS action " in Christ " for ever !!

dan p

Only a really good, overall picture of Romans 1 thru 8 will begin to so properly "stablish" one in the faith, and so firmly, that not only do such questions never arise again, but they are then able to hold their own as to how all that in those 8 chapters work together for the good built into them as one unit, that God intended in, and through those 8 chapters, as one picture of it all, within the understanding of the Body member, to begin with.

Which is merely a matter of reading those 8 chapters over and over and over, believing them, that they begin to work their work of bringing about their intended understanding, in you that believe.

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

 

[meshak]

Maybe a different take on Baptisim - Salvation:

Matthew 3 (powerful love)

Jesus praying to God the Father.

20“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. 26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

So, Baptism would be about love. Everything in Christ Jesus is about love. God is love. Our relationship with Christ and his relationship with us is about love in all things.

And after Gods plan of salvation has been completed in it's entirety, we will have a loving relationship with Him like we have never known. Living in a perfect world with a perfect God for eternity. WOW

He will be our loving God, and we will be His loving people.

What a awesome loving God we have. AMEN


God Bless.

Amen!

 

[turbosixx]

That is because the apostles at that time water baptized right after a person was saved.

That is just the way it happened during the laying of the foundation.

We don't have apostles telling us the true gospel and convincing us with miracles and wonders and then water baptizing us.



Jesus tells us all that we must believe in him.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."


And many more.



You should be more careful what you say. If the truth means anything to you then be more careful. I have not done what you claim. I preach that one can be saved before a water baptism, and sometime after. You are the one who is going against people Jesus saved if they did not get water baptized first, as taught by your false doctrine in your church.

You just mentioned two times that it had happened. So stop speaking against it. As for you trying to say what Peter saw through out all his years of preaching, you should be quiet.

Gal. 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
What about all those who "accepted" but weren't baptized into Christ?

 

[God's Truth]

Gal. 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
What about all those who "accepted" but weren't baptized into Christ?

What are you trying to say?

You don't make sense.

Do you mean in that scripture, or nowadays?

 

[turbosixx]

What are you trying to say?

You don't make sense.

Do you mean in that scripture, or nowadays?

I don't see how the scriptures mean something different for us today than they did then. I agree, the apostles laid the foundation and sign and miracles were part of the establishing the church. Being baptized into Christ is not a spiritual gift.

Paul says in Jesus we are all sons of God through faith.
Gal. 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

When he says "for as many of you as were baptized into Christ", were does that leave those who were not baptized? Are they in Christ?

 

[God's Truth]

I don't see how the scriptures mean something different for us today than they did then. I agree, the apostles laid the foundation and sign and miracles were part of the establishing the church. Being baptized into Christ is not a spiritual gift.

Paul says in Jesus we are all sons of God through faith.
Gal. 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

When he says "for as many of you as were baptized into Christ", were does that leave those who were not baptized? Are they in Christ?

The scriptures are about spiritual baptism.
When one is saved, Jesus puts his Spirit in you and puts you in him.

The laying of the foundation times were special times, to say the least, and the apostles preached the message that saves and at that same time water baptized people.

It just does not happen like that anymore. There are no apostles, and the foundation has been laid.

During the laying of the foundation God said that He gave salvation to those who were not looking for Him. That is about the Gentiles. That was during the laying of the foundation. The apostles came with the Truth, the pure flawless message, and then they water baptized those who accepted the message. God showed that He accepted them by giving them His Spirit.

After the foundation was laid, and fast forward to our times now...we just don't have that...we have someone preaching this, and other preachers teaching something else. We are surrounded by people ensnared by the devil to preach false doctrines. We don't know which way to go. We study this denomination and that, or we just stay in the denomination we grew up in. But when one wants God's Truth and not some religion's truth, there is a way to find it. I want to help people find God's Truth. It isn't about studying from this preacher and that preacher. It isn't about visiting as many denominations as you can find.

It is about searching for God with all your heart and body and mind. God says that if you do that you will find Him. How do we do that, and what does it mean to search with all your heart and soul? I want to tell people what it means.
We search for God by getting Jesus's teachings. We search with all our heart and soul by obeying those teachings, then Jesus will come to us and reveal himself.

 

[DAN P]

Only a really good, overall picture of Romans 1 thru 8 will begin to so properly "stablish" one in the faith, and so firmly, that not only do such questions never arise again, but they are then able to hold their own as to how all that in those 8 chapters work together for the good built into them as one unit, that God intended in, and through those 8 chapters, as one picture of it all, within the understanding of the Body member, to begin with.

Which is merely a matter of reading those 8 chapters over and over and over, believing them, that they begin to work their work of bringing about their intended understanding, in you that believe.

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

Hi and JUST how much help did you give , JUST read Rom 1- chapter 8 and I gave him verses that explain WHY !!

I believe verses that I gave will help him more , but that is me !!

dan p

 

[eleos]

From your response it appears you "assume", I have not, or do not study Gods Holy Word. I have for many years and will continue to do so diligently. And yes, based on that I have formulated certain "beliefs", just like everybody does and that's fine ... everyone is free to believe what they want, and that is a good thing and we have conversation about our beliefs.

With that, personally I have come to this conclusion:

No one is ultimately secure (saved) until inside the “city of God” (heaven) — in other words, losing faith and being lost is still possible while we are alive here on earth.

Point is ... nobody will really know until Jesus returns and it actually happens.

God Bless all.

 

[Tambora]

From your response it appears you "assume", I have not, or do not study Gods Holy Word. I have for many years and will continue to do so diligently. And yes, based on that I have formulated certain "beliefs", just like everybody does and that's fine ... everyone is free to believe what they want, and that is a good thing and we have conversation about our beliefs.

With that, personally I have come to this conclusion:

No one is ultimately secure (saved) until inside the “city of God” (heaven) — in other words, losing faith and being lost is still possible while we are alive here on earth.

Point is ... nobody will really know until Jesus returns and it actually happens.

God Bless all.

Nah.
One can know if they are saved right now, if you believe GOD keeps His word.