ECT Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

[turbosixx]

I already did in post #214, which you replied to: http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ater-Baptism&p=5135619&viewfull=1#post5135619

How did you reply to that post without reading it?

You quoted the verse Jn. 3:5-6 and if I understand you correctly, saying the water Jesus is talking about is physical birth. I read it and disagree with it. It doesn't make sense that he's talking about physical birth. When Jesus instructed the apostles on how to make Christians, he says baptize them in his name. That's water baptism. When we look at Acts 2:38 we see Peter telling them be baptized and you will receive the gift to the Holy Spirit. Water and Spirit just like he said in John 3:5.

 

[turbosixx]

Part of God's dealings with Israel and their prophecies, yes. Body of Christ, NO.

Who are the two groups Paul is talking about?

Eph. 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

 

[Danoh]

Who are the two groups Paul is talking about?

Eph. 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

The two groups in Eph. 2:11, but in light of Romans 1:18 thru the end of Romans chapter 3, this side of the end of Acts chapter 7.

In other words, read Acts 7, then Romans 1:18 thru the end of Romans 3.

Then read all of Ephesians 2.

The key wording in all of it is the words Circumcision and Uncircumcision - study out its mention here and there, throughout those various references.

Though this is the view I and other MADS hold.

Some MADs on here appear to hold a slightly different understanding of all that.

Rom. 14:5; Rom. 5:7,8.

 

[turbosixx]

The two groups in Eph. 2:11, but in light of Romans 1:18 thru the end of Romans chapter 3, this side of the end of Acts chapter 7.

In other words, read Acts 7, then Romans 1:18 thru the end of Romans 3.

Then read all of Ephesians 2.

The key wording in all of it is the words Circumcision and Uncircumcision - study out its mention here and there, throughout those various references.

Though this is the view I and other MADS hold.

Some MADs on here appear to hold a slightly different understanding of all that.

Rom. 14:5; Rom. 5:7,8.

I would start with Paul's explanation in the context.

 

[God's Truth]

The two groups in Eph. 2:11, but in light of Romans 1:18 thru the end of Romans chapter 3, this side of the end of Acts chapter 7.

In other words, read Acts 7, then Romans 1:18 thru the end of Romans 3.

Then read all of Ephesians 2.

The key wording in all of it is the words Circumcision and Uncircumcision - study out its mention here and there, throughout those various references.

Though this is the view I and other MADS hold.

Some MADs on here appear to hold a slightly different understanding of all that.

Rom. 14:5; Rom. 5:7,8.

The Jews and Gentiles are the same now to God and all must come to Him through Jesus by having faith in Jesus to clean and justify them instead of the ceremonial/purification works.

One gospel since John the baptizer, Jesus, all the apostles to the Lamb, and Paul.

 

[God's Truth]

The Bible tells us of people receiving the Holy Spirit BEFORE water baptism---AND, the Bible tells us of people who DID NOT receive the Holy Spirit after a water baptism.

Did you hear that? There were people who were WATER BAPTIZED and they did NOT receive the Holy Spirit.

AND, there were people who received the Holy Spirit BEFORE WATER BAPTISM.

So should we still get water baptized? YES.


There are madists here and other faith aloners who say water baptism is not something to do; and, there are those from the church of Christ denomination who say if you did not get water baptized first then you are not saved. BOTH TEACHINGS ARE NOT FROM GOD.

 

[Right Divider]

You quoted the verse Jn. 3:5-6 and if I understand you correctly, saying the water Jesus is talking about is physical birth. I read it and disagree with it. It doesn't make sense that he's talking about physical birth. When Jesus instructed the apostles on how to make Christians, he says baptize them in his name. That's water baptism. When we look at Acts 2:38 we see Peter telling them be baptized and you will receive the gift to the Holy Spirit. Water and Spirit just like he said in John 3:5.

Born of water is clearly birth and not water baptism. Your indoctrination in to Churchianity is so complete that you cannot believe truth when it stares you in the face.

Jesus' earthly ministry was to Israel and Israel had water baptisms as part of their priesthood.

You have a fixation on Israel's things.

 

[DAN P]

The Jews and Gentiles are the same now to God and all must come to Him through Jesus by having faith in Jesus to clean and justify them instead of the ceremonial/purification works.

One gospel since John the baptizer, Jesus, all the apostles to the Lamb, and Paul.

Hi and what verse are you using to prove that Jews and Gentiles are in God ??

So are Jews saved the same way as Gentiles , with a verse ??

I am serious !!

If you do not know , say so and I will produce verse for you !!

dan p

 

[Right Divider]

Who are the two groups Paul is talking about?

Eph. 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

One is not the NATION of Israel. Paul is speaking of Israelite's and Gentiles as individual people.

The body of Christ is a NEW CREATURE and NOT a joining with fallen Israel.

 

[turbosixx]

Born of water is clearly birth and not water baptism. Your indoctrination in to Churchianity is so complete that you cannot believe truth when it stares you in the face.

Truth comes from God's word. In God's word people who are being converted are water baptized and after doing so receive the Holy Spirit. If it was birth, then we shouldn't see any water.

This is on Paul's last journey just before his arrest.
Acts 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
Water and Spirit.

 

[turbosixx]

One is not the NATION of Israel. Paul is speaking of Israelite's and Gentiles as individual people.

So the two groups are Jew's and Gentiles?

 

[turbosixx]

One is not the NATION of Israel.

From your perspective, what constitutes the nation of Israel?

 

[God's Truth]

Hi and what verse are you using to prove that Jews and Gentiles are in God ??

So are Jews saved the same way as Gentiles , with a verse ??

I am serious !!

If you do not know , say so and I will produce verse for you !!

dan p

Since you know the scriptures I am speaking of, why do you ask for them?

Go ahead and post the scriptures.

 

[God's Truth]

Born of water is clearly birth and not water baptism.

Water baptism symbolizes the washing Jesus does to those who repent of their sins.

Your indoctrination in to Churchianity is so complete that you cannot believe truth when it stares you in the face.

Jesus' earthly ministry was to Israel and Israel had water baptisms as part of their priesthood.

You have a fixation on Israel's things.

Are you kidding? The flood in Noah's time is symbolic of the water baptism Christians do.

1 Peter 3:20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

 

[Danoh]

I would start with Paul's explanation in the context.

Exactly what I pointed you to.

Rom. 14:5; 5:7,8.

 

[Danoh]

One is not the NATION of Israel. Paul is speaking of Israelite's and Gentiles as individual people.

The body of Christ is a NEW CREATURE and NOT a joining with fallen Israel.

Exactly.

Rom. 14:5; 5:7,8.

 

[God's Truth]

From your perspective, what constitutes the nation of Israel?

They don't understand that the Old Testament spoke in earthy ways and the New Testament is the prophecies from the Old Testament revealed in the Spiritual way.

 

[Danoh]

From your perspective, what constitutes the nation of Israel?

The - Nation - Israel.

Nevertheless, Rom. 14:5; 5:7,8.

 

[God's Truth]

Exactly.

Rom. 14:6; 5:7,8.

All the Jews who belonged to God BEFORE Jesus came, they were ALREADY God's, AND, they now had to go through Jesus to remain God's. Jesus makes the whole tree with it's roots a new creation.

Think about how GOD CUT OFF from the tree the Jews who did not pass His judgments.

Think about the witnesses, those who already belonged to God but now had to go through Jesus' blood, how they were looking on at the laying of the foundation and hearing things the angels longed to see and hear.

You are a mess and miss the truth.

 

[God's Truth]

So the two groups are Jew's and Gentiles?

When Jesus came, there was a remnant of Jews who were saved.

At that same time, there were Jews who were cut off and bound to the place of disobedient Gentiles.

Those two groups were one in that they were all condemned.

Those two groups can become one in Christ.

We all have to come to Jesus to be saved.

We have to believe that his blood washes away the sins we repent of doing.