Mean TOL members

[Delmar]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Can you back that up with your religious texts?

Just look at the front of your Bible and tell me if I'm right !

 

[Delmar]

Are you or are you not quoting from a version that says "paraphrased "on the front

 

[rene]

Actually, Jesus fulfilled the law to the letter in not following with what they were trying to get Him to do - agree to the stoning of the woman.

To have caught her in the act - means that there was a man with her for her to be caught. Jewish law says that both the man and woman were to be stoned.

It was a setup.

Rene

Originally posted by deardelmar

No I don't think the bible says that he did.

The story starts with these guys trying to trick him into asserting Jewish Law over Roman Law ...but Jesus knew they were trying to trick him. So he didn't answer. Instead he wrote stuff in the sand. verse 9 doesn't say what he wrote but it does say they were convicted by [their own] conscience and went out one by one.
Since Jewish law requires that a person can only be convicted by two or more witnesses he simply pointed out that there were no witnesses. So he didn't condemn her for 2 obvious reasons that I can see. 1 They were trying to trap him. 2 The there were no witnesses how could he condemn her and keep the law. So the fact that he didn't condemn her does not necessarily mean she repented and was forgiven. The bible doesn't speak to that issue in this case.

 

[Delmar]

Originally posted by rene

Actually, Jesus fulfilled the law to the letter in not following with what they were trying to get Him to do - agree to the stoning of the woman.

To have caught her in the act - means that there was a man with her for her to be caught. Jewish law says that both the man and woman were to be stoned.

It was a setup.

Rene

yes, I think I sort of said that.

 

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by beanieboy

"Neither do I condemn you. Your sins have been forgiven*. Go and sin no more."

*pending my crucifiction.

Yes, it does say he did.

Mathew 9
1Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven*."

*pending my crucifiction. Void where prohibited by law.
(Paraphrased by Mathew)

Luke 7
47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven--for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."
48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven*."

*pending my crucifiction
(Paraphrased by Luke - probably isn't what Jesus really said according to a scholarly TOLer.)

May want to actually read the bible...

 

[rene]

Saw that - and also saw that the other didn't catch what you were saying the way that you were wording it.

So - I worded it in a direct, blunt way that would (I hope) get the other to open their bible - paraphrased or not and see for themselves.

Originally posted by deardelmar

yes, I think I sort of said that.

 

[Delmar]

Originally posted by beanieboy



Mathew 9
1Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven*."

*pending my crucifiction. Void where prohibited by law.

Luke 7
47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven--for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."
48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven*."

*pending my crucifiction

May want to actually read the bible...

Oh by the way I never said Jesus never forgave anyone prior to his death now did I?

 

[beanieboy]

Mathew 9
1Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."

How about this one?
"your sins are forgiven."

Does that mean that he wasn't really forgiving his sins?

 

[Delmar]

Originally posted by rene

Saw that - and also saw that the other didn't catch what you were saying the way that you were wording it.

So - I worded it in a direct, blunt way that would (I hope) get the other to open their bible - paraphrased or not and see for themselves.

cool:thumb:

 

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by deardelmar

Oh by the way I never said Jesus never forgave anyone prior to his death now did I?

So, why was his death necessary, if he was able to forgive prior to his death?

Please back it up scripturally.
Gratzie.

 

[Delmar]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Mathew 9
1Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."

How about this one?
"your sins are forgiven."

Does that mean that he wasn't really forgiving his sins?

Yes you are right!!!!! Jesus Christ has since the very first sin has had the authority to forgive the sins of anyone. Do you infer by that he must forgive the sins of everyone ? Whether they reject him or not?

 

[beanieboy]

The woman about to be stoned was misquoted, the others were not.

It seems like you are straining a gnat, rene.
He forgave sins prior to his death.

 

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by deardelmar

Yes you are right!!!!!

The bible says,
"your sins have been forgiven."
I say, "So you are saying that they aren't"
You respond, "Yes, you are right."

 

[rene]

Would not presume to speak for the other person, so don't take this as such.

I do have an answer tho for your question. My suggestion/answer would be to take a look at all the Messianic promises to see where such was written of. Then take a look at the ref. made to where His blood is applied and compare it to what we see within the OT promises, how they were told to worship and where they applied the blood that was only good for a temporary covering of sins. THEN - look again upon the NT and see how Jesus as the "perfect" sacrifice makes such repeated applications of blood no longer needed because He is indeed the "perfect sacrifice".

I can list all the scriptures for you - but it would literally take some time that I think would mean more if you took the time to get out your own bible and study it out prayerfully on your own.

Again - just a suggestion you can take or reject. Choice is all yours.

Rene

Originally posted by beanieboy

So, why was his death necessary, if he was able to forgive prior to his death?

Please back it up scripturally.
Gratzie.

 

[Delmar]

Originally posted by beanieboy

So, why was his death necessary, if he was able to forgive prior to his death?

Please back it up scripturally.
Gratzie.

You are asking me to back up a point I never made.

 

[rene]

Verses that you are speaking of that state this?

Helps to know what you are making ref. to in making a reply.

Rene

Originally posted by beanieboy

The woman about to be stoned was misquoted, the others were not.

It seems like you are straining a gnat, rene.
He forgave sins prior to his death.

 

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Mathew 9
1Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."

Here is the quote for the 3rd time, rene.

Jesus. Still alive. Not bleeding. Not nailed to anything.
Forgave with words.

 

[Delmar]

Originally posted by beanieboy

The bible says,
"your sins have been forgiven."
I say, "So you are saying that they aren't"
You respond, "Yes, you are right."

I did misread what you said. or rather didn't catch the last line I did agree that Christ forgave some people before he died.

 

[beanieboy]

Do you believe that Jesus had to die for our sins?

And if so, then how was he able to forgive without dying?

 

[rene]

Not sure if you have had one cup of coffee too much or what - but Matthew 9:1-2 is not addressing the woman brought to be stoned for adultry at ALL - which is what I made reply to.

Care to try again - or would you rather drop it?

Rene

Originally posted by beanieboy

Here is the quote for the 3rd time, rene.

Jesus. Still alive. Not bleeding. Not nailed to anything.
Forgave with words.