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Poly
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I say that, according to scripture, his rebuke is wrong. Judging and rebuking are good things as long as they line up with scripture. !!!First makes huge judgments throughout this board but never backs it up scripturally. In the end, people's opinions over things matter little. Telling people what you think is right just because you feel it's right just doesn't cut it.
Poly
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Then I would need to listen. The scripture one uses in backing their beliefs needs to be clear and in context and they must read all of what's being said about an idea and not just some of it. For instance those that say you shouldn't judge try to back it up with Matthew 7:1 where it says "Judge not, that ye be not judged". But it's evident when reading just a few verses down that Jesus wasn't saying, don't judge at all but don't judge hypocritically. If He didn't want us to judge at all He wouldn't have said "First, take the beam out of your own eye, then you will see clearly to take the speck from your brother's eye. So I can't judge somebody for stealing something, rebuking them, when I am also stealing. As long as I'm not doing the very thing I'm judging somebody else for then it's ok.
What Poly is saying beanieboy is that as long as Poly is not a homosexual she can berate you for your sins because her sins remain hidden.
Not only can she berate you, but condemn you to burn in fire forever.
Though her sin of hating you to the extent of eternal torture makes its' PARADE in front of ALL...
What nonsense.
Not only can she berate you, but condemn you to burn in fire forever.
Though her sin of hating you to the extent of eternal torture makes its' PARADE in front of ALL...
What nonsense.
Is that what you are saying, Poly?
Because if it is, I don't understand why it says 'beam' and 'speck.'
A 'beam' is far larger than piece of sawdust.
Otherwise, it would say, remove the speck from you own eye, then remove the speck from your brother.
So, can you explain your position?
Thank you. Namaste.
On Fire
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You forgot the *blink* *blink*
I am sick of you playing dumb. Why don't you tell us what YOU think God means with the "speck" and "beam"? You sure are pushing for a literal interpretation...but wait....don't you make fun of literal interpretations? Do you think God is saying that when I look at my neighbors sin it's like a speck compared to my sin which is like a beam? But wait....when my neighbor looks at my sin it's a speck and HIS is like a beam! I'm so confused!
I don't know what Poly thinks, and would like to hear it from her.
To me, they are two different things. Take out the greater hinderence from your own life, and then concentrate on the smaller things of your neighbor.
But I have heard the "if I don't do x, I can rebuke you for x."
But then it should say speck/speck, not beam/speck.
I think it is important to listen to others, so I am asking her.
I want to hear what she has to say.
It's simply, what is a speck and what is a beam?
Why is it differentiated, and in doing so, what is the difference.
If you don't know, just say, "I don't know."
That's a valid answer, and better than attacking me, or changing the subject, or any other silly game you play.
It's just a question. Sheeesh.
Aimiel
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The beam is that your sins cannot be forgiven, without The Blood of The Lamb; and the speck is any sin which might be found in someone who is now 'beamless' (Christian). None of us are without specks. Many of us have had our beams carried. Jesus was nailed to mine. What are you going to do about yours?
1Way
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BB – Are you even thinking about what you are saying?
I could just answer your question by the teaching you question very directly with little common sense added. But, how about we simply plug in your own ideas into it to see how it works just to see how much thoughtful consideration you contribute to these issues.
You said the following about the speck and log teaching.
Now, try simply inserting a differentiation of sins to see how that works.
And I’ll even spoil you with a direct response from the passage itself. The passage says it’s about hypocrisy. Say one thing but do another. So if you have a sin in your life, but you condemn someone else with that same problem, then you are being a hypocrite and you are wrong for so doing. Instead, you should first take that problem out of yourself, so that by so doing, you are qualified to help others be set free from their error and sin.
So when you hear “judge not” or “judge not lest you be judged”, you should consider the wider context and not just a partial sentence. Fill in the appropriate understanding conveyed and that is that it’s -- judge not you hypocrite(!), first remove the offense from yourself so that you will have the righteous standing to help others with the same issue so that you will not be a hypocrite. --
In short, “judge not” is the hypocrites golden rule. But God says to judge with righteous judgment, He even teaches the hypocrite how to stop that sin and remove his own problem before supposing he has the standing to help others with the same issue. It’s judge not you hypocrite, instead, judge with righteous judgment.
I could just answer your question by the teaching you question very directly with little common sense added. But, how about we simply plug in your own ideas into it to see how it works just to see how much thoughtful consideration you contribute to these issues.
You said the following about the speck and log teaching.
Suppose the case of no differentiation, it was just sin, it could be any or every sin. So the teaching would go like this.
- First become sinless so that you can become fit to help someone else become sinless. And that if you don’t become sinless, you are a hypocrite if you judge someone else for sinning.
Now, try simply inserting a differentiation of sins to see how that works.
- First remove a particular or differentiated sin from yourself, so that then you will be well suited to help someone else remove that same sin from their own life.
And I’ll even spoil you with a direct response from the passage itself. The passage says it’s about hypocrisy. Say one thing but do another. So if you have a sin in your life, but you condemn someone else with that same problem, then you are being a hypocrite and you are wrong for so doing. Instead, you should first take that problem out of yourself, so that by so doing, you are qualified to help others be set free from their error and sin.
So when you hear “judge not” or “judge not lest you be judged”, you should consider the wider context and not just a partial sentence. Fill in the appropriate understanding conveyed and that is that it’s -- judge not you hypocrite(!), first remove the offense from yourself so that you will have the righteous standing to help others with the same issue so that you will not be a hypocrite. --
In short, “judge not” is the hypocrites golden rule. But God says to judge with righteous judgment, He even teaches the hypocrite how to stop that sin and remove his own problem before supposing he has the standing to help others with the same issue. It’s judge not you hypocrite, instead, judge with righteous judgment.
1Way
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BB - I just also read the previous stuff so I have one more comment. I believe the speck log contrast issue has to do with issues of magnitudes of guilt or culpability. There are teachings that clearly show that the easier and the more responsible you are to do good, then the worse it is if you do not do it, same holds true for evil in the opposite way. So heres the plain and simple.
If we have the same speck in our eye that someone else has, picture it, each person has the same speck, the same sin. As soon as either says to the other, you know you have a problem, let me help you out of your sin, then because the helper did NOT first remove his own speck, the problem is aggravated or multiplied and made far worse because of the sin of say one thing and do another, hypocrisy.
The point is that hypocrisy is a terrible and destructive sin so the speck becomes a log if you dare become the hypocrite with it. So the same sin in each person, but when multiplied by the sin of hypocrisy, it becomes greatly aggrivated and enlarged.
It may not be a perfect explanation, but I think it fits, I hope this helps.
If we have the same speck in our eye that someone else has, picture it, each person has the same speck, the same sin. As soon as either says to the other, you know you have a problem, let me help you out of your sin, then because the helper did NOT first remove his own speck, the problem is aggravated or multiplied and made far worse because of the sin of say one thing and do another, hypocrisy.
The point is that hypocrisy is a terrible and destructive sin so the speck becomes a log if you dare become the hypocrite with it. So the same sin in each person, but when multiplied by the sin of hypocrisy, it becomes greatly aggrivated and enlarged.
It may not be a perfect explanation, but I think it fits, I hope this helps.
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1Way
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AthistsSuck - I can not vouch for BB's sincerity, I would sooner doubt it. But the question does have some merit. I suggest that the reason for the different size of the speck log issue is because of the added sin of hypocrisy once you say one thing and do another. It may well have been that without that aggravated additional offense, both parties may rightly be said to have a speck in their eye. It was only the one who acted the hypocrite that was said to have the log in his eye, so it seems that the sin of hypocrisy added unto the original offense and made it that much larger. And I think that in many ways, hypocrisy is one of the most destructive of sins.
But you may have only meant the size of the sin from each party does not matter. Which I would agree is true. It could be that they are both murderers, or both could be more gracious and slow to anger, but in either case, the size differential becomes an issue when one becomes a hypocrite even though they each have the same sin in their life.
Would you agree with that?
But you may have only meant the size of the sin from each party does not matter. Which I would agree is true. It could be that they are both murderers, or both could be more gracious and slow to anger, but in either case, the size differential becomes an issue when one becomes a hypocrite even though they each have the same sin in their life.
Would you agree with that?.Beanieboy
You still seem to miss the point of what I was addressing and still seem to rationalize that one is permitted – homosexuality because there are heterosexual perverts out there – and I do understand your point that some homosexual or lesbian people have higher standards than heterosexual couples.
Exactly what is sin, though? – And it seems you think sin is doing worse than someone else, and the lack of sin is doing better than someone else… Sin is falling short of perfection – and exactly what does falling short of perfection do to us – it causes us harm. As well what is perfection? – And is what I am striving for right now – what you are called to strive for? – I believe it is not.
For this post all I am trying to do is say that you might do well to consider some basic language and logic – that just because some person of sexual norm is in the secular world – doing what most people in secular norm do – that this is not logical to assume that the concept of serving God is to rise above the secular humanist norm – though this mode of goodness is a platform from which one is able to consider God Conscious matters – which you do.
In human terms I know what it is like to have a good friend – nothing sexual involved, just good friends – and good friends do not leave one another when someone new comes around, there are a few friends that I have had – which when they get girlfriends – that is it – good bye, one does not see them any more. People are like that with God as well – when life is lonely – they seek God, but when things happen – more material wealth, friends in abundance – they seek God less and less. It is to our betterment to have a relationship with God that is more important than anything else – and blessed are those who pursue this close relationship with God – for those whom God leads towards Him – often the pursuit is in solitude, where all other relationships – including sexual- are just simply not seen as profitable – and the relationships that are pursued have the teaching or learning of God Conscious matters as the basis for the relationship.
People addicted to sense gratification simply do not have the time to pursue God Conscious matters, and think for the most part – celibacy – no thank you, but it is not like that, seeking God is just so satisfying, that one’s other needs simply are not there, they are replaced with the joy of pursuing and which comes from knowledge of God. Sex is a big lie – a culturally instilled desire, simply does not hold up to the Light.
!!!!First
You still seem to miss the point of what I was addressing and still seem to rationalize that one is permitted – homosexuality because there are heterosexual perverts out there – and I do understand your point that some homosexual or lesbian people have higher standards than heterosexual couples.
Exactly what is sin, though? – And it seems you think sin is doing worse than someone else, and the lack of sin is doing better than someone else… Sin is falling short of perfection – and exactly what does falling short of perfection do to us – it causes us harm. As well what is perfection? – And is what I am striving for right now – what you are called to strive for? – I believe it is not.
For this post all I am trying to do is say that you might do well to consider some basic language and logic – that just because some person of sexual norm is in the secular world – doing what most people in secular norm do – that this is not logical to assume that the concept of serving God is to rise above the secular humanist norm – though this mode of goodness is a platform from which one is able to consider God Conscious matters – which you do.
In human terms I know what it is like to have a good friend – nothing sexual involved, just good friends – and good friends do not leave one another when someone new comes around, there are a few friends that I have had – which when they get girlfriends – that is it – good bye, one does not see them any more. People are like that with God as well – when life is lonely – they seek God, but when things happen – more material wealth, friends in abundance – they seek God less and less. It is to our betterment to have a relationship with God that is more important than anything else – and blessed are those who pursue this close relationship with God – for those whom God leads towards Him – often the pursuit is in solitude, where all other relationships – including sexual- are just simply not seen as profitable – and the relationships that are pursued have the teaching or learning of God Conscious matters as the basis for the relationship.
People addicted to sense gratification simply do not have the time to pursue God Conscious matters, and think for the most part – celibacy – no thank you, but it is not like that, seeking God is just so satisfying, that one’s other needs simply are not there, they are replaced with the joy of pursuing and which comes from knowledge of God. Sex is a big lie – a culturally instilled desire, simply does not hold up to the Light.
!!!!First
Removing the SPECK means SPECKless. Is there ANY SPECKLESS among you???
Let the SPECKLESS cast the first stone....
If your eye be EVIL however, your WHOLE BODY IS full of DARKNESS....
Is there a greater EVIL than to HATE your neighbor to the extent of ETERNAL TORTURE???
In this you show you are children of DARKNESS.
Let the SPECKLESS cast the first stone....
If your eye be EVIL however, your WHOLE BODY IS full of DARKNESS....
Is there a greater EVIL than to HATE your neighbor to the extent of ETERNAL TORTURE???
In this you show you are children of DARKNESS.
1Way
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Small - Jesus did not teach you have to become sinless in order to help someone else out of their sins. That is just foolish. He said do not be a hypocrite, say one thing and do another.
First remove that sin from your life so that you may have righteous standing to help another remove that same sin.
Hypocrisy is over say one thing and do another, so the two parties involved were necessarily guilty of the same sin. It can not mean judge not unless you are sinless, or do you think Jesus taught to actually become sinless so that you can actually help someone else become sinless?
No wonder basically everyone despises your moronisms which is almost always full of hypocrisy and contradictory nonsense.
First remove that sin from your life so that you may have righteous standing to help another remove that same sin.
Hypocrisy is over say one thing and do another, so the two parties involved were necessarily guilty of the same sin. It can not mean judge not unless you are sinless, or do you think Jesus taught to actually become sinless so that you can actually help someone else become sinless?
No wonder basically everyone despises your moronisms which is almost always full of hypocrisy and contradictory nonsense.
servent101
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To behold the sin of your brother - to see your brother as that sin - this is the log in one's eye - how do you remove the sin from your brother, when all one sees in their brother is that sin? The sin that is preventing you from helping your brother is that you only see your brother as a sin - not as a person... so how can you help him or her?
Better yet - how do you cure your brother without him or her ever knowing they had a problem? - This is the easiest way to help a friend.
How do you help a person of a different sexual orientaiton when you call that person that sexual orientation?
With Christ's Love
Servent101
To behold the sin of your brother - to see your brother as that sin - this is the log in one's eye - how do you remove the sin from your brother, when all one sees in their brother is that sin? The sin that is preventing you from helping your brother is that you only see your brother as a sin - not as a person... so how can you help him or her?
Better yet - how do you cure your brother without him or her ever knowing they had a problem? - This is the easiest way to help a friend.
How do you help a person of a different sexual orientaiton when you call that person that sexual orientation?
With Christ's Love
Servent101