ECT MADist thought for the day

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Jacob

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Young's Literal Translation:

Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 3:3&version=YLT
John 3:3 is not the only place in the Bible that says "born again".

Do you suggest that the words "born again" are out of place in the Bible? Is the concept foreign to God's word?

What about the context in John 3 that seems to imply more than one experience of being born?
 

lifeisgood

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It appears from what Nang was saying that what is translated in John 3:3 as "born again" may be supposed to be translated "born from above" instead. The Greek word "anōthen" can be translated variously, according to the Strongs at www.blueletterbible.org.

Don't know if this is helpful or not, but Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Based on semantic domains, says:

41.53 γεννάω ἄνωθεν (an idiom, literally ‘to be born again’); παλιγγενεσίαa, ας f: to experience a complete change in one’s way of life to what it should be, with the implication of return to a former state or relation—‘to be born again, to experience new birth, rebirth.’
γεννάω ἄνωθεν: ἐὰν μή τις γεννηθῇ ἄνωθεν ‘unless a person is born again’ Jn 3:3. It is also possible to understand ἄνωθεν in Jn 3:3 as meaning ‘from above’ or ‘from God’ (see 84.13), a literary parallel to the phrase ἐκ θεοῦ ἐγεννήθησαν in Jn 1:13. In Jn 3:3, however, Nicodemus understood ἄνωθεν as meaning ‘again’ (see 67.55) and γεννάω as ‘physical birth’ (see 23.52).
παλιγγενεσίαa: διὰ λουτροῦ παλιγγενεσίας καὶ ἀνακαινώσεως ‘new birth and new life by washing’ Tt 3:5. The metaphor of ‘new birth’ is so important in the NT that it should be retained if at all possible. In some languages ‘new birth’ can be expressed as ‘to cause to be born all over again’ or ‘to have a new life as though one were born a second time.’

67.55 ἄνωθενb; πάλινa; εἰς τὸ πάλιν: a subsequent point of time involving repetition—‘again.’
ἄνωθενb: οἷς πάλιν ἄνωθεν δουλεύειν θέλετε ‘whom you want to serve as slaves all over again’ Ga 4:9.
In Jn 3:3 ἄνωθεν involves a play on the two distinct meanings of the word, namely, ἄνωθενb ‘again’ and ἄνωθενa ‘from above’ (see 84.13). For the idiom γεννάω ἄνωθεν, see 41.53.
πάλινa: εἶτα πάλιν ἐπέθηκεν τὰς χεῖρας ἐπὶ τοὺς ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτοῦ ‘then he again placed his hands on the man’s eyes’ Mk 8:25.
εἰς τὸ πάλιν: ἐὰν ἔλθω εἰς τὸ πάλιν οὐ φείσομαι ‘when I come again, I will not spare anyone’ or ‘… nobody will escape punishment’ 2 Cor 13:2.

84.13 ἄνωθενa: extension from a source which is above—‘from above, from the top of.’ ἦν δεδομένον σοι ἄνωθεν ‘it was given to you from above’ Jn 19:11; ἐσχίσθη εἰς δύο ἀπ̓ ἄνωθεν ἕως κάτω ‘torn in two from top to bottom’ Mk 15:38; ἐκ τῶν ἄνωθεν ὑφαντὸς δἰ ὅλου ‘woven from the top in one piece’ Jn 19:23; ὁ ἄνωθεν ἐρχόμενος ἐπάνω πάντων ἐστίν ‘he who comes from above is far above all’ Jn 3:31. In Jn 3:31 the reference of ἄνωθεν is obviously heaven, and in many languages it is essential to translate ‘he who comes from heaven is far above all.’ ἐὰν μή τις γεννηθῇ ἄνωθεν ‘unless someone is born from above’ Jn 3:3. In Jn 3:3 ἄνωθεν may also mean ‘again’ (see 67.55). For ἄνωθεν as part of an idiom, see 41.53.

My Greek has the three numbers 41.53, 67.55 and 84.13 to translate 'born again.'

My understanding of 'born again,' personally has always been that it has to come from God, therefore, from above; otherwise, I cannot be 'born again.' Obviously, Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he had to be born spiritually not physically; therefore from above or from God. At least this has always been the way I understood this verse.
 

Eeset

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Born again is actually a very simple term and concept. Nicodemus did not think it possible. Jesus said it was not only the Way but inescapable and Jesus questioned how Nicodemus could not comprehend it.
 

Lighthouse

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The change of mind regarding Christ contrasts the state of mind regarding?

We turn from ???? to Christ.
Are you seriously that stupid?

From unbelief regarding Christ; who He is, what He's done, etc. to belief.:dunce::duh:
 

lifeisgood

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I don't have a verse to say that this means the spirit has been renewed.

2 Corinthians 5:17 — Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Galatians 6:15 — For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.



If you are a new creature, YOU HAVE to be renewed.

You no longer are the creature you were before being 'born again'. Everything has become new. The way you talk, the way you walk, the way you see things, the way you relate to God, etc., etc., ad infinitum, all NEW and DIFFERENT. You are a brand new creature, renewed by the born again experience.

At least that's the way I see it.
 

Jacob

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2 Corinthians 5:17 — Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Galatians 6:15 — For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.



If you are a new creature, YOU HAVE to be renewed.

You no longer are the creature you were before being 'born again'. Everything has become new. The way you talk, the way you walk, the way you see things, the way you relate to God, etc., etc., ad infinitum, all NEW and DIFFERENT. You are a brand new creature, renewed by the born again experience.

At least that's the way I see it.
So you aren't saying that only your spirit has been renewed.
 

andyc

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Are you seriously that stupid?

Not this stupid........

God is a bigot
There, I said it. Now what?


From unbelief regarding Christ; who He is, what He's done, etc. to belief.:dunce::duh:

Understanding who he is and what he's done supposes that the sinner has contrasted his goodness with their sinfulness, which is repentance.

You never have a clue what you're talking about, you're just looking for a chance to insult people. So off you go out of this thread.
 

Lighthouse

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Not this stupid........
:plain:

Understanding who he is and what he's done supposes that the sinner has contrasted his goodness with their sinfulness, which is repentance.

You never have a clue what you're talking about, you're just looking for a chance to insult people. So off you go out of this thread.
You're a moron.
 

lifeisgood

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So you aren't saying that only your spirit has been renewed.

No, not only my spirit is renewed. When the spirit is renewed you become a new person. The way you used to be is no longer and you start behaving, talking, walking, etc. in a new way.

old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new.
 

Jacob

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No, not only my spirit is renewed. When the spirit is renewed you become a new person. The way you used to be is no longer and you start behaving, talking, walking, etc. in a new way.

old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new.
If it is all things have become new I don't know why people say specifically that the spirit has been renewed. I don't have a Bible verse that says the spirit has been renewed. But people like to say that for some reason.
 

One In Christ

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And you are carnal.

Go and be carnal some place else.

"carnal" - andyc

You-keep-using-that-word1.jpg
 

Nang

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If it is all things have become new I don't know why people say specifically that the spirit has been renewed. I don't have a Bible verse that says the spirit has been renewed. But people like to say that for some reason.

Ephesians 2:1-5

Being dead in trespasses and sins is to be spiritually dead unto serving God and His righteousness.

In regeneration, the Holy Spirit renews the human spirit from this dead state and by His indwelling, and gives the sinner a new heart to love and serve God. Romans 3:21-25

This results in a total life change evidencing saving faith and repentance from sin.

Nang
 

Jacob

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Ephesians 2:1-5

Being dead in trespasses and sins is to be spiritually dead unto serving God and His righteousness.

In regeneration, the Holy Spirit renews the human spirit from this dead state and by His indwelling, and gives the sinner a new heart to love and serve God. Romans 3:21-25

This results in a total life change evidencing saving faith and repentance from sin.

Nang
Can you admit that none of these verses talk about the spirit being renewed?
 

Nang

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Can you admit that none of these verses talk about the spirit being renewed?

Well, if the person is physically alive, walking around, and able to hear the bad news that he is dead in trespasses and sins, the only other thing that could cause this tragic condition of death, is a corrupted and totally depraved spirit.
 

Jacob

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Well, if the person is physically alive, walking around, and able to hear the bad news that he is dead in trespasses and sins, the only other thing that could cause this tragic condition of death, is a corrupted and totally depraved spirit.
According to who? The Bible or your Theology?
 

Nang

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According to who? The Bible or your Theology?

The bible.

The verse in your own signature makes it plain men are "flesh and spirit," and if the flesh is still living (although in the process of dying), what is "dead in trespasses and sins" but the human spirit?

You tell me . . .
 
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