The verse in my signature says that we as Christians ought to cleanse ourselves of defilement of both flesh and spirit. It does not say that "the spirit has been renewed".
ECT MADist thought for the day
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Nang
TOL Subscriber
Reprobates are flesh and spirit, but God leaves them dead in trespasses and sins; thus they remain spiritually dead, and are unable and unwilling to do what Paul instructed in II Corinthians 7:1.
Only those born from above and renewed in spirit (given new hearts) can follow that scripture.
It is my belief that Spiritual new birth is talking about God's Spirit giving a person new life, making them a new creature, and coming to live (dwell) inside that person. You may see a relationship between my description using the word "life" and your use of the word "spirit", but I don't draw one except maybe by way of speaking Theologically but not Biblically. And, you can't get that from the verse in my signature, and neither would I say that the heart and the spirit are the same thing. My elementary understanding is that the spirit is the breath, or life, of the individual. When a person is born again, something I believe the Bible calls regeneration, that person has been given God's Spirit. God's Spirit is not the same as the spirit an individual has during the course of their life (from outside the womb, until death). And what do you believe is a reprobate.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I agree with you. "Spirit" and "Life" (in my view) are synonomous. Though I do retain a distinction between the created human spirit regenerated by God and the uncreate Holy Spirit of God.
What I garner from II Cor. 7:1 is that man is both flesh and spirit.
Agreed.
I agree, in that the Holy Spirit reconciles with the sinners and comes to indwell and act as a paraclete with that person for the rest of their lives. However, I also think the actual human spirit/life is resurrected to a new existence.
Agreed. The Holy Spirit (Life) of the Creator is distinct from the human spirit (regenerated) life of the believer, but, by the power and grace of God, a reconciliation and union of the two are achieved by God as never before.
A reprobate soul, is a sinner who remains spiritually separated from God. And when a human spirit is separated from the Holy Spirit of God, there is NO LIFE.
And when there is NO spirit (NO LIFE), there is no ability to exercise faith and repentance; obey the moral Law of God, nor any ability to walk in the will and word of God at all.
That is what is described as being "dead in trespasses and sins."
The human spirit of reprobates are only willing and able to serve sin, death, and the devil.
One must must be born again from above, and be brought into spiritual union (reconciliation between human and divine spirits) before any sinner can hope to ever comprehend and experience the kingdom of God. John 3:3
You are not a spirit inhabiting a body, but a body that has a spirit (which is your breath, your life).
It sounds like you are saying all those who are unbelievers/unsaved are reprobates. Does it have something to do with rejecting the truth or simply "unknowingly" living contrary to it? My "ask" was for the word reprobates defined... meaning, what is its definition in scripture.
lifeisgood
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If your spirit is not renewed, you will continue to be the old self you always were. The spirit is what need to be renewed. Adam did not die physically, but that he died he died. He died spiritually (he became separated from God).
Before we knew what the Lord did at the Cross in our place we were dead spiritually (separated from God), just like Adam.
When we hear the preaching, our spirit is renewed into newness of life and we become a new creation (our spirit is renewed, we are born again).
If the spirit is not renewed then everything is still old and nothing has changed and we are still dead in our sins and trespasses.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Well, that is why one cannot develop dogma according to one verse only. Your sig verse reveals men are flesh and spirit. To learn about the dead spirit of sinners being renewed through the resurrection powers and grace of the Holy Spirit of God, one must read MORE verses! :crackup:
Right?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
A "reprobate" is a soul whom God has rejected.
We are talking about the difference between the Theology we have that was made up for us, and what the Bible says.
You may be calling all sinners reprobate?
You were saying something is renewed and it is not the flesh, which smacks of gnosticism.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
The idea that mankind has experienced spiritual death at the fall and the idea that the spirit has been renewed may be connected, and neither phrase is found in the Bible.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
The sinner renewed and brought to life by God's grace, and regenerated in the spirit and indwelt by the Holy Spirit . . . is the guarantee of resurrection of the body to everlasting life.
That is not gnostic.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Now you sound like Trad.
Demanding that Protestant Theology be quoted from the Bible in exact English terms, rather than developed according to the entire teachings of the original languages in the O.T. and N.T.
Don't go there . . . it is a silly challenge.
Where is the word "renewed" in the Bible in this your position? And as you say not just with the word "spirit" but also with the word "flesh" (to prove it is not gnostic (is this unfair)).
lifeisgood
New member
I go by what the Bible says:
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new. (2 Cor. 5:17)
How does the above verse happens? How do old things are passed away? How do all things have become new?
Something had to happen. What?
Romans 7:6 -- But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
How? The born again experience.
Having a Theology that is developed from the Biblical text may be a challenge, but it will produce a certainty in the preacher and an historical understanding in the hearer. This is not just for Protestants. It goes for all those making the claim that they are Christian (making a claim to godliness).
The word "spirit" you are refering to in Romans 7:6 is not the same understanding of the "spirit" Nang and I are discussing ("the animating life-force" in each person). You are talking about something in regard to "the law" that is not "the letter".
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