Kate Steinle Verdict

annabenedetti

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Because liberals are notoriously lenient on gun crime? The Voir Dire would have tried to ensure that the jurors would have had as little knowledge of the crime as possible, and I suspect (but don't know) that they lawyers would have had to keep it out of the case since it is prejudicial and not relevant to the charges brought against him. And especially in California, assuming that a Hispanic man is an immigrant would be inaccurate more often then not.

Or it could be that the prosecutors couldn't make their case to the satisfaction of the jury.

In case you didn't see alternate juror Phil Van Stockum's statement:

I Saw the Kate Steinle Murder Trial Up Close. The Jury Didn’t Botch It.

I was an alternate juror in the Kate Steinle murder trial in San Francisco. I didn’t get a vote, but I saw all of the evidence and the jury instructions, and I discussed the verdict with the jury after it was delivered. Most of the public reaction I've seen has been surprise, confusion and derision. If these were among your reactions as well, I'm writing to explain to you why the jury was right to make the decision that it did.

I’m not a lawyer, but I understood the law that was read to us in this case. Defendants in this country have the right to a presumption of innocence, which means that if there is a reasonable interpretation of the evidence that favors a defendant, the jury must accept that interpretation over any others that incriminate him. This principle is a pillar of the American justice system, and it was a significant part of our jury instructions.

Jose Ines Garcia Zarate, the undocumented immigrant who was accused of killing Steinle, was charged with first degree murder and the lesser included offenses of second degree murder and involuntary manslaughter. When the prosecution rested its case, it seemed clear to me that the evidence didn’t support the requirements of premeditation or malice aforethought (intentional recklessness or killing) for the murder charges. After having heard the evidence, I agreed with the defense’s opinion that the murder charges should not have been brought. The evidence didn't show that Garcia Zarate intended to kill anyone.

These are some of the facts that were laid out to us: Zarate had no motive and no recorded history of violence. The shot he fired from his chair hit the ground 12 feet in front of him before ricocheting a further 78 feet to hit Steinle. The damage to the bullet indicated a glancing impact during the ricochet, so it seems to have been shot from a low height. The gun, a Sig Sauer P239 pistol, is a backup emergency weapon used by law enforcement that has a light trigger mode and no safety. (The jury members asked to feel the trigger pull of the gun during deliberation, but the judge wouldn’t allow it, for reasons that aren’t clear to us.) The pixelated video footage of the incident that we were shown, taken from the adjacent pier, shows a group of six people spending half an hour at that same chair setting down and picking up objects a mere 30 minutes before Garcia Zarate arrived there.

There is a reasonable interpretation here that favors the defendant: He found the gun at the seat, picked it up out of curiosity, and accidentally caused it to fire. As a scared, homeless man wanted by immigration enforcement, he threw the gun in the water and walked away. The presumption of innocence, as stated in the jury instructions, required the jury to select this interpretation because it is reasonable and favors the defendant.

But why the manslaughter acquittal? Most of the confusion I've encountered has been over this part of the verdict, and it does seem to me personally that manslaughter is the appropriate charge for Steinle’s killing. However, given the evidence and the law presented in this trial, it is clear to me that the jury made the right decision.
The involuntary manslaughter charge that the jury was read included two key requirements: 1) A crime was committed in the act that caused death; 2) The defendant acted with "criminal negligence"—he did something that an ordinary person would have known was likely to lead to someone's death.

The jury members were not free to select the crime for part (1)—they had to use the one chosen by the prosecution, and the prosecution chose that crime to be the "brandishing," or waving with menace, of a weapon. As a juror, I found this choice puzzling, because the prosecutor presented absolutely zero evidence of brandishing during the trial. I don’t think we even heard the word “brandishing” until it was read as part of the charge during the jury instructions at the trial's end. No witnesses ever saw the defendant holding a gun, much less brandishing it. Given that baffling choice by the prosecution, the manslaughter charge was a nonstarter for the jury. Had a different precursor crime been chosen—for instance, the unlawful possession of a firearm by a felon—the outcome might have been different.

Even in that case, however, it is not clear to me that part (2) of the manslaughter charge was proved. Only a single particle of gunshot residue was found on the defendant’s hands, which seems to support his repeated claim that the gun was wrapped in some sort of fabric when he picked it up and caused it to fire. If he did not know the object was a gun, it is a stretch to claim that it was criminal negligence for him to pick it up.

The jury did convict Garcia Zarate of the separate charge of illegal possession of a firearm, which indicates that the members felt it to be an unreasonable conclusion that he didn’t know he was holding a gun. He was in the seat where he claims he found it for about 20 minutes prior to the shooting, and he made some statements during interrogation that seemed to indicate that he had known what the item was. Without the benefit of being able to re-examine the evidence during deliberation, I’m not sure that I would consider that evidence to constitute proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but knowing these jurors, I would trust them to have made an accurate judgment if the manslaughter charge had survived the first requirement.

I have come away from this experience with a strong sense of respect for the jurors and their objective handling of a sensitive case under the national spotlight. I hope that I would have acted with the same level of maturity.
 

annabenedetti

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Any God who buys into Breitbart's vicious anti-immigrant white supremacy is evil, and it certainly isn't found in the Christian or Jewish Bible.

I'm going to say this again:

If the situation had been reversed and it was an American citizen who had found the gun and it was the victim hit by the ricochet who was here illegally, musterion and his cohort wouldn't be interested in this beyond their glee at having one less illegal to deport. That's all this tragedy means to them. Their Christianity is inextricably wrapped in political and cultural power.
 

rexlunae

New member
I'm going to say this again:

If the situation had been reversed and it was an American citizen who had found the gun and it was the victim hit by the ricochet who was here illegally, musterion and his cohort wouldn't be interested in this beyond their glee at having one less illegal to deport. That's all this tragedy means to them. Their Christianity is inextricably wrapped in political and cultural power.

This is a case that has nothing to do with immigration, illegal or otherwise, and the only reason it's getting the kind of attention that it is is that it is being used to malign immigrants, liberals, and sanctuary cities. And that is despicable.
 

patrick jane

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This is a case that has nothing to do with immigration, illegal or otherwise, and the only reason it's getting the kind of attention that it is is that it is being used to malign immigrants, liberals, and sanctuary cities. And that is despicable.
Nothing to do with immigration? Are you insane? This illegal immigrant was a convicted felon multiple times, deported 5 or 6 times and released BECAUSE he was in a sanctuary city. This tragedy should have never happened. Anna is flat out wrong about musty and his "cohort" and you idiot liberals are dangerous in so many ways it's ridiculous.

We "malign" ILLEGAL criminals, not immigrants. Fortunately the rational, logical liberals are beginning to realize the hypocrisy and are starting to jump ship.
 

annabenedetti

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This is a case that has nothing to do with immigration, illegal or otherwise, and the only reason it's getting the kind of attention that it is is that it is being used to malign immigrants, liberals, and sanctuary cities. And that is despicable.

Her death was a tragedy that was exploited by Trump and the alt-right for political gain. He brought up the case repeatedly, as did FOX, as did the alt-right fomenters of hate, who care less about Kate Steinle than they do about their efforts to "build the wall" and blame all ills on Obama, Clinton, and "the left."

In fact, the alt-righters here at TOL in any other instance would have absolutely excoriated Kate's lifestyle. Except when it would interfere with their political agenda. Apparently Kate was into "spirituality," she lived in San Francisco, and she lived with her boyfriend. By all accounts she was a loving and compassionate person, but here at TOL and in the world of Breitbart and FOX, were it not for the real tragedy of her death, her generosity of spirit would have been discarded as inconsequential compared to the sins of living with her partner in that most hated of liberal cities. Had she been shot by a white citizen, the reaction here by the alt-right would have been more along the lines of "that's what happens to the godless liberals who want to live in San Fransicko, I hope the whole state falls into the ocean."

The alt-right hates and it fears, and Trump fuels their hate and their fear. He said Garcia Zarate "came back and back over the weakly protected Obama border, always committing crimes and being violent." Except that Garcia Zarate had never been convicted of a violent crime, his convictions were related to drugs and crossing the border illegally. But Trump wanted the alt-right to feel fearful, more fearful, fearful enough to set aside any flicker of evangelical uneasiness for the cause of advancing and holding onto political power, and that's how he got elected: with overwhelming evangelical support.

Religious conservatives have shown their willingness to set aside moral principle for political power, and their willingness to exploit the death of Kate Steinle for their own political agenda isn't surprising. They've had Trump lead the way and show them how to do it without shame.
 

patrick jane

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Her death was a tragedy that was exploited by Trump and the alt-right for political gain. He brought up the case repeatedly, as did FOX, as did the alt-right fomenters of hate, who care less about Kate Steinle than they do about their efforts to "build the wall" and blame all ills on Obama, Clinton, or "the left."

In fact, the alt-righters here at TOL in any other instance would have absolutely excoriated Kate's lifestyle. Except when it would interfere with their political agenda. Apparently Kate was into "spirituality," she lived in San Francisco, and she lived with her boyfriend. By all accounts she was a loving and compassionate person, but here at TOL and in the world of Breitbart and FOX, were it not for the real tragedy of her death, her generosity of spirit would have been discarded as inconsequential compared to the sins of living with her partner in that most hated of liberal cities. Had she been shot by a white citizen, the reaction here by the alt-right would have been more along the lines of "that's what happens to the godless liberals who want to live in San Fransicko, I hope the whole state falls into the ocean."

The alt-right hates and it fears, and Trump fuels their hate and their fear. He said Garcia Zarate "came back and back over the weakly protected Obama border, always committing crimes and being violent." Except that Garcia Zarate had never been convicted of a violent crime, his convictions were related to drugs and crossing the border illegally. But Trump wanted the alt-right to feel fearful, more fearful, fearful enough to set aside any flicker of evangelical uneasiness for the cause of advancing and holding onto political power, because that's how he got elected: with overwhelming evangelical support.

Religious conservatives have shown their willingness to set aside moral principle for political power, and their willingness to exploit the death of Kate Steinle for their own political agenda isn't surprising. They've had Trump lead the way and show them how to do it without shame.
You have absolutely no clue what the right thinks, you only know what you're spoon fed by liberal media. You are the one politicizing Kate's death, you and "the left" here on TOL. How can you possibly ignore IILEGAL criminals being given "sanctuary" in your state?

You think because Kate lived with her boyfriend that "TOL's right" and Christians would demonize her? You're sick.
 

annabenedetti

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You have absolutely no clue what the right thinks, you only know what your spoon fed by liberal media. You are the one politicizing Kate's death, you and "the left" here on TOL. How can you possibly ignore IILEGAL criminals being given "sanctuary" in your state?

You politicized her death by starting this thread. I'm just noting it.

You think because Kate lived with her boyfriend that "TOL's right" and Christians would demonize her? You're sick.

Oh yeah, I do think they would do that, because demonization is done on a daily basis here. That's what's sick.
 

patrick jane

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You politicized her death by starting this thread.



Oh yeah, I do think they would do that, because it's done on a daily basis here. That's what's sick.
I politicized an already politicized criminal illegal alien deported 6 times and when he WAS here illegally he kept committing crimes? He kept illegally coming back to San Fran specifically because he would be "welcomed" there and "protected". Leave it to the left to disregard our laws and borders then scream politics when real Americans are outraged.

I started this thread because this is one of thousands of examples of the problems with ILLEGAL criminal aliens being given free reign in parts of our country. The majority of this country thinks this is a serious issue, so thanks for keeping the thread alive and exposing the liberal mindset. Only "your side" is compassionate and loving and caring. We ONLY "politicize" this case because we want a wall and Trump only wants to create "fear". You're only posting in this thread because of your great love and compassion for helpless immigrants, you have no political agenda.

What about the millions of immigrants who enter LEGALLY and become citizens by following the law? Do you think they like this? This was political long before Trump took office or is all history before Trump irrelevant to you? Your Trump Derangement Syndrome is frightening.
 

kmoney

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Nothing to do with immigration? Are you insane? This illegal immigrant was a convicted felon multiple times, deported 5 or 6 times and released BECAUSE he was in a sanctuary city. This tragedy should have never happened. Anna is flat out wrong about musty and his "cohort" and you idiot liberals are dangerous in so many ways it's ridiculous.

We "malign" ILLEGAL criminals, not immigrants. Fortunately the rational, logical liberals are beginning to realize the hypocrisy and are starting to jump ship.
I can understand how him being an illegal immigrant may add insult to the injury of her dying. You can say he shouldn't have been here in the first place. But that doesn't mean that this case can be used as ammo in the overall immigration debate. Anyone could have picked up that gun and gotten the same result. It's a tragedy, but a tragedy that has nothing to do with his legal status.
 

patrick jane

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I can understand how him being an illegal immigrant may add insult to the injury of her dying. You can say he shouldn't have been here in the first place. But that doesn't mean that this case can be used as ammo in the overall immigration debate. Anyone could have picked up that gun and gotten the same result. It's a tragedy, but a tragedy that has nothing to do with his legal status.
The reality is, illegal immigration and immigration in general has been a huge political issue going back at least 30 years or more. The "wall" was voted for and passed way before Trump was elected. This is not a Trump manufactured issue, but is a big reason he won.

The illegal should not have been here and to say that any legal citizen could have picked up the gun and killed Kate is dodging the real problem.
 

annabenedetti

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Thanks, interesting piece. It helps explain why the manslaughter charge was avoided.

You’re welcome. His explanation was thoughtful, articulate, and very helpful. And in taking us through the jury reasoning, he dismantled any claim that the jury was politically motivated.
 

annabenedetti

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I politicized

I know.

I started this thread because this is one of thousands of examples of the problems with ILLEGAL criminal aliens being given free reign in parts of our country. We ONLY "politicize" this case because we want a wall and Trump

I know.

The alt-right hates and it fears, and Trump fuels their hate and their fear.

frightening.

Yeah. Well, good luck with that.
 

patrick jane

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You’re welcome. His explanation was thoughtful, articulate, and very helpful. And in taking us through the jury reasoning, he dismantled any claim that the jury was politically motivated.
Irrelevant. Simply because you see no political motivation by the jury doesn't mean the whole scope of this case is not political. You just hate the fact that one of your beloved criminal illegal aliens stumbled upon a gun and the gun went off "on it's own", killing a legal citizen. Let your love and compassion flow.
 

rexlunae

New member
Nothing to do with immigration? Are you insane? This illegal immigrant was a convicted felon multiple times, deported 5 or 6 times and released BECAUSE he was in a sanctuary city.

It doesn't matter who or what he is. What matters is if the law was upheld, and if he was judged fairly by a jury of his peers. He was. You may not like the law, but as it stands (see Anna's post for full details), the prosecutor failed to prove that he had brandished the weapon, and thus he couldn't have been convicted on the more serious charge against him. This is how the criminal justice system is supposed to work.

This tragedy should have never happened. Anna is flat out wrong about musty and his "cohort" and you idiot liberals are dangerous in so many ways it's ridiculous.

What's dangerous is identity-based justice like what you're advocating in service of your Final Solution for immigration.
 

patrick jane

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I can understand how him being an illegal immigrant may add insult to the injury of her dying. You can say he shouldn't have been here in the first place. But that doesn't mean that this case can be used as ammo in the overall immigration debate. Anyone could have picked up that gun and gotten the same result. It's a tragedy, but a tragedy that has nothing to do with his legal status.
I'm glad you "can understand" how him being a felon, here illegally, repeatedly, "MAY ADD INSULT TO THE INJURY" of DEATH. The "injury" is death. Yeah, you really understand. Like you said, coulda happened to anybody. Absurd reasoning and distorted logic rule the day for you guys.
 

patrick jane

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It doesn't matter who or what he is. What matters is if the law was upheld, and if he was judged fairly by a jury of his peers. He was. You may not like the law, but as it stands (see Anna's post for full details), the prosecutor failed to prove that he had brandished the weapon, and thus he couldn't have been convicted on the more serious charge against him.



What's dangerous is identity-based justice like what you're advocating in service of your Final Solution for immigration.
I accept the verdict and I "like the law" just fine. Now I'm "advocating a Final Solution" - You lying scumbag. Isn't the final solution something Hitler referred to? That's how you argue against immigration restrictions? Do you realize what you sound like?
 

kmoney

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I'm glad you "can understand" how him being a felon, here illegally, repeatedly, "MAY ADD INSULT TO THE INJURY" of DEATH. The "injury" is death. Yeah, you really understand. Like you said, coulda happened to anybody. Absurd reasoning and distorted logic rule the day for you guys.
Yes I know the injury is death. I simply used the phrase and didn't mean to minimize what her family must feel. But yes, it COULD have happened to anyone.
 

annabenedetti

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So anna, you know you are politicizing this don't you?

You know in trying to copy me, the difference is that I posted your words back to you, while you had to make up words.

Yes, you know exactly what you're doing.

Yes I know exactly what I'm doing: I'm noting how the alt-right politicized and continues to politicize the death of Katy Steinle for their own political agenda, and you've illustrated that very well in this thread.
 
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