It would be better for you to grab hold of tradition and learn Keypurr.
Jesus is God
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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It would be better for you to grab hold of tradition and learn Keypurr.
keypurr
Well-known member
Creatures are not God my friend. Creatures are creations. And so are IMAGES. You fail to see that the son is the express IMAGE of the Father and God was pleased that he contained God's fullness.
God created all through his first (firstborn) of all creation.
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Wut...? What does Bible Gateway have to do with this? I'm quoting scripture and I'd rather not type it out word for word. Keypurr, if you have a problem with me quoting scripture from a reliable source, then you have more issues than with just your theology.
Have you ever considered that you're the one who has misunderstood what scripture is saying and not the church? That you're the one distorting it?
Jesus is not a created being.
Correct. And we should worship the Creator and NOT the creature.
The perfect copy of something is the thing itself. When you go into the bathroom and see yourself in the mirror, as far as the physical universe is concerned, it is the express image of you, down to the last freckle and white hair. It is not you, but a copy of you, and express image. When someone looks at your mirror image, they can say, "You look good today." are they talking to the mirror image? Or are they talking to you? If to you, how do they know you look good? Because they see your express image.
That is why Jesus says "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father," because Jesus is the perfect copy of His Father. If you want to know what the Father is like, look at His Son, who is God.
You fail to see that a perfect copy (express image) of God is God Himself. If Jesus has all the fullness of God, a perfect copy, then that makes Him God. And we know that God is eternal, therefore Jesus, as God, is eternal, just as His Father is eternal, and just as the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, is eternal.
God created ALL things. Therefore, if something was created, then it CANNOT BE God. Yet it says in Genesis 1:1 that in the beginning GOD created. Therefore it was not a created being that created.
Or do you claim that almost every single translation of the Bible is wrong? Either Keypurr is right or the Bible is right. I'd tend to go with God's Word on that one.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Unfortunately for you, Keypurr, you don't know your Lord is God our Saviour.
1 Tim. 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
And most unfortunate of all.....your PRIDE will never allow you to admit it.
Absolutely Wrong! A creation is part of the creation. He could not be the Creator.
We are trying to bring you back into the light!
John 1:1-5 New Living Translation (NLT)
Prologue: Christ, the Eternal Word
1 In the beginning the Word already existed.
The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He existed in the beginning with God.
3 God created everything through him,
and nothing was created except through him.
4 The Word gave life to everything that was created,
and his life brought light to everyone.
5 The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness can never extinguish it.
Titus 2:13 New Living Translation (NLT)
13 while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed.
keypurr
Well-known member
Your q2uoting someone else opinion, not yours. Your source is not perfect friend.
As a former very active church member yes I considered that my thoughts might be wrong, but I knew the church was way off base. That's why I left. Now I am free to think for myself.
keypurr
Well-known member
That would be a giant step backwards BR.
keypurr
Well-known member
YES HE IS.
agree
Do they see and feel my emotions, do they know my every thought? No, they do not.
He reflected the person of God by speaking his words.
Disagree, Jesus the man is not a perfect copy of God the SPIRIT. That is my point. The SON of Col 1:15 is NOT a man, its a Spirit.
God created ALL through is first creation, the logos, spirit Son. That son was GIVEN the fullness of his creator. He is a godlike spiritual creature. This is the spirit that was IN Jesus at his anointing.
keypurr
Well-known member
Yes he would if God gave him his fullness. Did not Jesus say that ALL power in heaven and earth was given o him? That makes him a created form of God. Yet he has God.
KEYPURR! LISTEN TO YOURSELF!
You are claiming that the scripture verses I am quoting are not valid! YOU ARE SAYING SCRIPTURE IS NOT VALID!
If you don't like where I copy and paste scripture from, Keypurr, GO AND LOOK UP THE VERSES YOURSELF, AND COMPARE THEM TO WHAT I AM QUOTING!
THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL YOU BE ABLE TO SAY, IF WHAT IS QUOTED IS NOT ACCURATE, THAT IT ISN'T ACCURATE!
Keypurr, I'm not going to play games with you because you don't like where I quote the Bible from. If you don't like it, SHOW ME WHERE THE VERSES I QUOTE ARE WRONG, AND THEN SHOW ME THE CORRECT TRANSLATION. Otherwise, do not bring up this matter again.
So you, a man, said that what the church, an authority instituted by God, is teaching is wrong, so you left and didn't find a different church to go to?
There's your problem, Keypurr. You abandoned the church based on your own understanding of the Bible. That makes you apostate, not the church.
No, he isn't.
Then according to your own beliefs, you yourself SHOULD NOT worship Jesus Christ. For if he is a creation, he is not worthy of worship. Yet you claim you DO worship Him, and by your own beliefs, you are sinning.
That's a red herring. It has nothing to do with what I asked. Keypurr, here is what I said:
KEYPURR: When you go into the bathroom and see yourself in the mirror, as far as the physical universe is concerned, is the mirror your express image, down to the last freckle and white hair?
KEYPURR: When someone looks at your mirror and they say, "You look good today," are they talking to the mirror image? Or are they talking to you? If to you, how do they know you look good?
Please answer these questions.
He reflected the person of God because He IS GOD! Anyone can parrot someone else, Keypurr. That doesn't make them who they parrot. Also, Jesus DID NOT say, "He who has heard Me has heard the Father." He said, "He who has seen me."
Jesus the Son is the exact image of God the Father.
Keypurr, who is this chapter about:
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints;because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;as you also learned from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf,who also declared to us your love in the Spirit.For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy;giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciledin the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God,the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily. - Colossians 1:1-29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians1:1-29&version=NKJV
If you say anything other than God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, please explain why you think that this chapter is about more than them.
No, God created all things through God the Son Son, Jesus Christ, who, at the time, had not been given the name "Jesus Christ," because he had not been sent to dwell on the earth yet.
Where in the Bible does it say that the Son was created? Please provide the exact verse, with book name and chapter and verse numbers.
In any case, thank you for completely ignoring my point. Please go read it again, and respond accordingly.
keypurr
Well-known member
I am not disputing scripture, I am disputing your interpretation of scripture. If you expect me to answer your posts, shorten them, lets look at them piece by piece.
You do not get the point that the express image has to be a creation. Where is your power of logic? The express image is not just a reflection. God is a spirit so his express image MUST be a spirit also. Jesus was human, born to Mary.
Show me any IMAGE that is not a creation and I might start agreeing with you.
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Shorten them up yourself by using the "QUOTE" feature. [ QUOTE ] and [ /QUOTE ] (without the spaces) are all you need to do so.
No, Keypurr, you're reading that into the text where it doesn't exist. Go read my post about the Greek words used for that phrase.
Where is yours?
Jesus was made flesh and tabernacled among us. Jesus, for eternity past, had been a spirit, but then he lowered himself and became a man, to lay down his life for mankind.
That's what SCRIPTURE says, Keypurr. If you cannot accept that, then you are a heretic.
I already have, and you refuse to see it.
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He won't believe you.
Of course he won't. But the word of God does not return void.
keypurr
Well-known member
NO YOU HAVE NOT.
Now. Show me any image that is not created.
What do the words firstborn of all CREATION mean to you?
It does not say firstborn of God, although it is, it reads firstborn of all CREATION /CREATURES.
THERE IS ONLY ONE WHO IS CONSIDERED AS THE MOST HIGH.
And it is not Jesus who has a God.
Do you see my point?
Jesus Christ is Lord, not God.
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No, you reject truth. How can you see and not believe John 1:1, 14