God's Truth
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Those scriptures are about the time in the desert.
What is there to not get about that?
Jesus is God
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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Those scriptures are about the time in the desert.
What is there to not get about that?
You try to make Jesus and the Father the same. They're not.
God's Truth
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Those scriptures I gave were proving that Christ and God were the same.
If you don't want to believe it means the Father and Jesus are the same then it does not take away that it proves Christ and God are the same, agree?
Agree
Right.
The Son never says He is the Father.
The Father never says He is the Son.
"I and my Father are one" doesn't mean the Father and the Son are the same person, anymore that Adam and Eve being one means they are the same person.
The Father sent the Son.
That is two persons doing two different things.
One is sending the other.
God's Truth
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There is only one God and He is the Father, there is no one like Him or besides Him. That is what Jesus said when he himself spoke as the I AM in the Old Testament.
Jesus is not the Father.
God's Truth
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The Father is Spirit. Jesus is Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Spirit.
There is only one Spirit.
That means they are one and the same.
That means that they are all God but separate personalities.
It seriously took you all three hundred and forty five thread pages to get down to the age-old question and sticking point that is always underlying every Trinity and "Jesus is God" argument? :crackup:
If there are three separate "persons" or "personalities" then they are three Gods and two of them are redundant, (not necessary), and the whole theory collapses because it defeats the very meaning of the words "God Almighty". If One is God Almighty then there is no need for two more "God Almighties" because the One God Almighty does not need any "help" to do anything whatsoever, (because He is the One God Almighty). The are enough places where we read in the scripture that there is One God, but nowhere do we read of "the three Spirits of God" or any other such language involving the number three, such as "the three Spirits of the Godhead", or anything else even close to that kind of language. However, we do read in the Apocalypse that there are Seven Spirits of Elohim. So if you say that there are three "members" or "personalities" or "persons" of the "Godhead", when there is no such thing written, then who is to say whether or not there might actually be four? or five? or six? or seven? One could actually therefore make a BETTER case for the "Seven Spirits of the Godhead" just because we do find that there are Seven Spirits of God in the Apocalypse. And while most will automatically say it cannot be true please be serious and realize that the only reason most would say that is because of their indoctrination and because it simply goes against what is already the majority opinion. I am not saying that it is true by any means, but simply trying to make a point; the point being that the argument for the Trinity is utterly flawed and is actually not even as good an argument as someone who comes along as says there might be seven in the Godhead. You are much closer to reality by simply staying with the One True Almighty Elohim. The "church" and Christianity at large has been spinning their wheels for seventeen hundred years now trying to prove the Trinity and it just aint gonna happen.
God's Truth
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They are EXACTLY the same.
Nope, you have confused the scriptures.
#45 pages for those who are as you are. Unaware that that God is three in one. The Bible explicitly teaches the triunity of God. Doesn't matter if you accept it or not. But it will matter as to where you spend eternity. Is the Son of God God? In every sense.
John 1:1New King James Version (NKJV)
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14New King James Version (NKJV)
The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Acts 5:3-4New King James Version (NKJV)
3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”
Seems that your argument is not with men but with scripture.
God's Truth
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They are exactly the same. Jesus only says and does what the Father says and does. Imagine that.
In fact, when you see Jesus one day, you can say, "I see the Father".
No they are not the same. Positionally, the Father is greater than the Son. John 10:29
God's Truth
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Of course, a man is not as great as God the Father.
Jesus is God the Father come as a Son of Man.
God humbled Himself.
God did not pretend to come as a Man, He really came as a Man.
1) The Word became flesh when Moses began to write the Living Oracles:
2) The Father is also called the Holy Spirit because Elohim Almighty is Spirit:
Matthew 10:19-20 ASV
19 But when they deliver you up, be not anxious how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you.
Mark 13:11 ASV
11 And when they lead you to judgment, and deliver you up, be not anxious beforehand what ye shall speak: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.
John 4:22-24 ASV
22 Ye worship that which ye know not: we worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
Seems my statements hold true under the Light of the Word.
You are so confused. Jesus is not God the Father. Scripture is so plain. Jesus is the Son of the Father.
Matthew 3:16-17New American Standard Bible (NASB)
16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, 17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”
The Trinity eh.
They might if you would exegete them properly.
The portion which showed up in your quote was not even exegeted by me because Matthew 10:20 and Mark 13:11, (and Luke 12:11-12 which was not even quoted), are companion passages: they say the same things, and they say what they say, and one says "the Spirit of your Father" while the other says "the Holy Spirit", (as well as Luke 12:12), and they are the same exact statements but simply reported by different authors. In short, they clearly speak of the same "Person", and that is the Father who is the Holy Spirit in that context.
As for what did not show up in your quote, because it was already in quote boxes in my own post, are you saying that you do not believe the testimony of Stephen, in Acts 7:38, where he plainly states that the Torah contains the LIVING LOGIA-ORACLES-WORDS-SAYINGS of Elohim? That is his testimony from the passage quoted: he plainly states that the Torah is LIVING WORD.