keypurr
Well-known member
The Messiah is not God, it is the Son he sent. Christ is the anointed of God, not God.
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Jesus is God
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
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You have earned the title.
God's Truth
New member
Acts 5:41 The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name.
If the scriptures are exegeted in the proper manner there is no doubt that Jesus is God.
keypurr
Well-known member
I fully disagree my friend.
I will believe in the words of my Lord who was sent by his God to bring us understanding.
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God's Truth
New member
Is Jesus not our Savior? Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior be glory,
Is Jesus not our God and Savior?: Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Is Jesus not God the King of kings and Lord of lords? 1 Timothy 6:15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
Revelation 17:14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
Yes He is. Amen.
God's Truth
New member
Amen.
It seems you think God is like a person, a super person and therefore, must be singular, like a person?
God's Truth
New member
Are you blind? The scriptures say 'God'. That is a little scary how you didn't see it.
Look again more carefully:
Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior be glory,
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
1 Timothy 6:15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
Revelation 17:14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
God's Truth
New member
You still missed it. Keep looking.
Look again more carefully:
Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior be glory,
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
1 Timothy 6:15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
Revelation 17:14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
keypurr
Well-known member
Did not miss anything GT.
God AND our Savior Jesus Christ.
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Alright then, you are taking a simplistic logical approach without inspiration.
God's Truth
New member
That is only one scripture. What about the other ones?
Granville Sharp's rule
Granville Sharp's Rule is a grammatical principle applied to the translation of New Testament Greek whereby the deity of Christ is explicitly affirmed. This is specifically associated with the translation of Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1.
Titus 2:13:
KJV -- "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." Similarly in the 1901 ASV, RSV, and also in the New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
NASB -- "Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus." The same sense is also seen in NIV and ESV.
In the above translations, the first implies a reference to two persons, while the second (applying the Granville Sharp rule) sees the reference to one person who is both God and savior. The same contrast may be seen in 2 Peter 1:1:
KJV -- "to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."
NASB -- "To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ."
Statement of the rule
"The following rule by Granville Sharp of a century back still proves to be true: `When the copulative KAI connects two nouns of the same case, if the article HO or any of its cases precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle; i.e., it denotes a further description of the first-named person.'" (A Manual Of The Greek New Testament, Dana & Mantey, p. 147)
"Basically, Granville Sharp's rule states that when you have two nouns, which are not proper names (such as Cephas, or Paul, or Timothy), which are describing a person, and the two nouns are connected by the word 'and,' and the first noun has the article ('the') while the second does not, both nouns are referring to the same person." - James White
The basic formula (in the Greek word order) may be seen in this manner:
Article (ho) + noun1 + and (kai) + noun2
Granville Sharp's rule says that since the definite article (ho, or its variant) precedes only the first noun and not both, then the reference is to one person -- this being the case in the verses quoted above.
Cautions in application
Detractors maintain that there are numerous examples in the Greek where Granville Sharp's rule fails to hold up, i.e. where two distinct referents are obviously intended. However, as pointed out by Daniel Wallace, this is due to a misapplication of the rule.^ [1]^ What is often overlooked is that Granville Sharp distinctly noted that the rule applies when the two nouns are singular and apply to persons, not things. When these restrictions are considered, there are no exceptions to be noted in native Koine Greek constructions.
Wallace has restated Granville Sharp's rule in order to explicitly state all the restrictions and to enhance the readability of the rule.
In native Greek constructions (i.e., not translation Greek), when a single article modifies two substantives connected by kai (thus, article-substantive- kai-substantive), when both substantives are (1) singular (both grammatically and semantically), (2) personal, (3) and common nouns (not proper names or ordinals), they have the same referent. ^[2]^
From Theopedia.com
keypurr
Well-known member
Love you as a brother BR but I really do not care about your Granville Sharp rules. There are to many other verses that disagree with you. Folks need to stop using it as an excuse to overcome their traditions. You would do better to listen to the words of your Lord when he told you that only his Father is the true God.
This is just another reason why I do not trust the Greek to English translations like I have in the past.
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