You mean what do we reject? You deny that God was not the son, and thus are an idolater.
Jesus is God !
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Oh have some fun.......
Oh have some fun.......
Well, join the LOOP,.....since Jesus is both 'God' and the 'Son' at the same time. Come on,....you know the orthodox Trinity concept
- the 'Son' is wholly accepted as being the 'Son'. Its all a matter of how each personality in the Godhead is defined, related and synergized.
Keep your 'synergy' cap on
pj
Oh have some fun.......
Well, join the LOOP,.....since Jesus is both 'God' and the 'Son' at the same time. Come on,....you know the orthodox Trinity concept
- the 'Son' is wholly accepted as being the 'Son'. Its all a matter of how each personality in the Godhead is defined, related and synergized.Keep your 'synergy' cap on
pj
Aimiel
Well-known member
The Holy Spirit is Jesus, Who is Christ. Pay attention to The Holy Scriptures.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
End of discussion.
keypurr
Well-known member
That is what we say about you.
"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18"No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again.
"What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?" 19Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
"Then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from their sight."
The mortal body of Jesus retuned to the elements, the imperishable spirit of the Son resurrected a likeness of his former body, then appeared and disappeared to believers. Those are just the facts mam!
"What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?" 19Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
"Then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from their sight."
The mortal body of Jesus retuned to the elements, the imperishable spirit of the Son resurrected a likeness of his former body, then appeared and disappeared to believers. Those are just the facts mam!
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
End of discussion,...my foot
End of discussion,...my foot
This ironically refutes the Orthodox Trinity Doctrine, which specificies the individual difference and distinction between the 3 persons within the Godhead. If you're going to be true to that 'dogma',...you might want to properly explain this. Sure, according to this concept they are all one, but claiming the above can cause confusion. On a purely metaphysical level,.....of course all divine persons partake in the same omnipresent SPIRIT, they all sharing that divine essence or nature,...but lets recognize the distinctions of personhood according to the creed.
Paul fades the lines in a lot of his writings, and here is referring to the Spirit in general, the 'Spirit' as the essence or whole of 'God',...so that of course one could say the Spirit is also the 'Spirit of God' and 'Spirit of Christ', because they are all of that Same Spirit Nature. Again,...we can spiritualize away here
What a crock. Its far from that, and its this attitude that stinks, closing the door to any further expansion of consciousness, debate, research or reconsideration of the subject,....which could be further elaborated, explored and illuminated. This kind of 'mentality' is repugnant.
pj
End of discussion,...my foot
This ironically refutes the Orthodox Trinity Doctrine, which specificies the individual difference and distinction between the 3 persons within the Godhead. If you're going to be true to that 'dogma',...you might want to properly explain this. Sure, according to this concept they are all one, but claiming the above can cause confusion. On a purely metaphysical level,.....of course all divine persons partake in the same omnipresent SPIRIT, they all sharing that divine essence or nature,...but lets recognize the distinctions of personhood according to the creed.
Paul fades the lines in a lot of his writings, and here is referring to the Spirit in general, the 'Spirit' as the essence or whole of 'God',...so that of course one could say the Spirit is also the 'Spirit of God' and 'Spirit of Christ', because they are all of that Same Spirit Nature. Again,...we can spiritualize away here
What a crock. Its far from that, and its this attitude that stinks, closing the door to any further expansion of consciousness, debate, research or reconsideration of the subject,....which could be further elaborated, explored and illuminated. This kind of 'mentality' is repugnant.
pj
Really... End of discussion? I Think NOT!
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Do you really read Jesus saying... My Spirit is upon me? or as scripture reads/teaches The Spirit of the Lord is upon me? :think:
Act 10:38 "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
So if Jesus is the holy spirit as you claim... :think: Then His God anointed Him with Himself ???
Luk 4:1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness
So... are you implying Jesus was full of Himself... and being led around by Himself?
I know the term... "End of discussion" is something you hear frequently from your traditions of men leaders! But Your post was far from the end of discussion! :readthis:
Try studying before you post what your told to believe!
oly::sherlock:Paul
Jordan Fontenot
New member
There are no scriptures saying the Son raised himself from the dead! That's a fact!
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of GOD the Father, not a separate being!!! Jesus clearly tells you this!!!
Luk 12:11 And when they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not be anxious about how you should defend yourself or what you should say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."
Mat 10:19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
Not surprised you did not know this!
and you state: and that The Trinity raised Jesus from the dead.
Wow, that's amazing since the word trinity is absent from our Scripture! You post with traditions of men emotions, you feel it to be true then it must be true... Much how our current Government runs today. Lacking facts and truth you feel like scripture teaches such things when it does no such thing! :think:
Yet, there are many scriptures teaching GOD raised him from the dead...
Now let’s take a look at one of the many verses that speak of God raising Jesus. Acts 2:32 states:
"God raised this Jesus"
Who raised this Jesus? GOD! Notice that it does not say "the Father," but "God." Unless we discard every known rule of language, we can see that Jesus is not included in the term God. Another point to be made is that God is alive and Jesus is dead. God is raising Jesus from the dead. As Timothy pointed out before, God is immortal, He cannot die. Jesus on the other hand is DEAD. If you believe Jesus to be God, then it is obvious that Jesus was never truly dead because he did in fact raise himself from the dead. A huge problem arises with this absurd idea in that the forgiveness of our sins comes only through the death of Jesus Christ as the Bible states. If Jesus is God then there was no real death because God is raising Jesus. Do you think that the Bible is wrong or that the creeds that were created by men that made Jesus God are wrong. Someone is wrong, the question is who, the writers of the Bible or the writers of YOUR creeds?
When preaching to these Jews Peter presents a Messiah who is the descendent of King David (v.30). He is one who would have rotted and decayed in the grave like any other man had not God raised him up again (v.24-32). Because God authenticated "this Jesus" by resurrecting him (thus reversing the national verdict accusing him of blasphemy, that is, claiming to be God's Messiah), Jesus is now "exulted to the right hand of God" (v. 33). God has thus sealed "this Jesus whom you crucified" (v.36) and declared him as "Lord and Messiah" to the nation of Israel and "for all who are far off" (the Gentiles as well, v.39). The proof of his Messiahship is that the Holy Spirit has been poured out.
Study Harder...
Paul
John 8:58
Really... End of discussion? I Think NOT!
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Do you really read Jesus saying... My Spirit is upon me? or as scripture reads/teaches The Spirit of the Lord is upon me? :think:
Act 10:38 "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
So if Jesus is the holy spirit as you claim... :think: Then His God anointed Him with Himself ???
Luk 4:1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness
So... are you implying Jesus was full of Himself... and being led around by Himself?
I know the term... "End of discussion" is something you hear frequently from your traditions of men leaders! But Your post was far from the end of discussion! :readthis:
Try studying before you post what your told to believe!
Paul
Have to agree with you. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit.
And does that say that Jesus is the Holy Spirit?
Sorry, but Jesus is simply telling you He is submitting to his God... thus the blood soaked prayer asking the cup to be taken away from him in the garden before His death.
Just so you know... the risen Jesus is a man! Paul tells you this!!!
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Study Harder
oly::sherlock:Paul
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
John 8:58
John 8:58
We've refuted and dissected this verse elsewhere. This verse does not prove Jesus is referring to the "I AM" of Ex. 3:14, but appears to refer to he being the 'Christ' (as in "I am he"), as well as he existing before the time of Abraham, as he so states, showing in some sense his pre-existence. We've had 2 threads on this. A more accurate rendering is "before Abraham came into being, I have been in existence", or something close. There is no justification or correlation grammatically to show Jesus saying he is 'YHWH', 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' or the Self existing One as revealed in Ex. 3:14.
There are just as many if not more passages showing Jesus is not God, than those used to prove it. Also in this study, are more complications of passage interpretation, term-definitions and context.
pj
John 8:58
We've refuted and dissected this verse elsewhere. This verse does not prove Jesus is referring to the "I AM" of Ex. 3:14, but appears to refer to he being the 'Christ' (as in "I am he"), as well as he existing before the time of Abraham, as he so states, showing in some sense his pre-existence. We've had 2 threads on this. A more accurate rendering is "before Abraham came into being, I have been in existence", or something close. There is no justification or correlation grammatically to show Jesus saying he is 'YHWH', 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' or the Self existing One as revealed in Ex. 3:14.
There are just as many if not more passages showing Jesus is not God, than those used to prove it. Also in this study, are more complications of passage interpretation, term-definitions and context.
pj
Sorry, but Jesus is simply telling you He is submitting to his God... thus the blood soaked prayer asking the cup to be taken away from him in the garden before His death.
Just so you know... the risen Jesus is a man! Paul tells you this!!!
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Study Harder
Paul
That's Paul's problem not Jesus. Paul never knew Jesus so his personal speculations are to be taken with a grain of salt.
Jesus voluntarily laid down his life and he took it up again just as he said he would using the powers of a divine incarnate being that he revealed that he had. Even the apostles were clueless but amazed.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
differences of interpretation, relationship and context......
differences of interpretation, relationship and context......
To Caino and Pierac:
For you two to have a better informed dialogue, Pierac would need a better understanding of 'Christology' as revealed in the Urantia Book, which does reveal Jesus as our Creator Son ( a divine being who took on flesh thru the mystery of 'incarnation'), so that this 'Jesus' is our 'God' and 'Creator' as pertaining to us in this local universe, although there is still the Universal Father who alone is the Great God over all, Creator Sons being an order of divine Sons who go forth to create and populate worlds in their respective universe-creations. So, as long as this is not understood, there will be a disconnect and talking past each other. See our UB thread here.
The UB is more complex further as it elaborates a very high order of Trinity known as the 'Paradise Trinity', for this divine Godhead is the fount of all creation, but Jesus as a Creator Son is NOT the 'Eternal Son' within this 'Paradise Trinity', but has mistakenly been 'assumed' to be a part of the original Godhead (Trinity) as in traditional-orthodox Christian theology. Jesus in UB cosmology, is of a created order of divine Sons emenating from the Universal Father and 'Eternal Son' within the Paradise Trinity, known as Creator-Sons. In this context, Jesus is as to us, our 'Creator-God' who underwent an incarnation on our planet to reveal 'God' to us, but he is NOT the original 'Eternal Son' within the Paradise Trinity. None-the-less,....Jesus to us, is the perfect expression and embodiment of perfect 'God' and perfect 'Man', being both the 'Son of God' & 'Son of Man', preaching the gospel of salvation for all, all being sons of God, called to the good news of the kingdom, built upon the 'Fatherhood of God, and Brotherhood of all men'.
pj
differences of interpretation, relationship and context......
To Caino and Pierac:
For you two to have a better informed dialogue, Pierac would need a better understanding of 'Christology' as revealed in the Urantia Book, which does reveal Jesus as our Creator Son ( a divine being who took on flesh thru the mystery of 'incarnation'), so that this 'Jesus' is our 'God' and 'Creator' as pertaining to us in this local universe, although there is still the Universal Father who alone is the Great God over all, Creator Sons being an order of divine Sons who go forth to create and populate worlds in their respective universe-creations. So, as long as this is not understood, there will be a disconnect and talking past each other. See our UB thread here.
The UB is more complex further as it elaborates a very high order of Trinity known as the 'Paradise Trinity', for this divine Godhead is the fount of all creation, but Jesus as a Creator Son is NOT the 'Eternal Son' within this 'Paradise Trinity', but has mistakenly been 'assumed' to be a part of the original Godhead (Trinity) as in traditional-orthodox Christian theology. Jesus in UB cosmology, is of a created order of divine Sons emenating from the Universal Father and 'Eternal Son' within the Paradise Trinity, known as Creator-Sons. In this context, Jesus is as to us, our 'Creator-God' who underwent an incarnation on our planet to reveal 'God' to us, but he is NOT the original 'Eternal Son' within the Paradise Trinity. None-the-less,....Jesus to us, is the perfect expression and embodiment of perfect 'God' and perfect 'Man', being both the 'Son of God' & 'Son of Man', preaching the gospel of salvation for all, all being sons of God, called to the good news of the kingdom, built upon the 'Fatherhood of God, and Brotherhood of all men'.
pj
I was just using what Jesus said and what he did using his words from the Bible and the subsequent enlightenment of his followers. Athanasius won the day thank God.
Jordan Fontenot
New member
Ok so what do we do with John saying that Jesus is the word and the word was God. Transitive property states that is a statement that He is God.
Not to mention that in John 5:18 people get angry at Jesus for claiming to be equal with God.
keypurr
Well-known member
keypurr
Well-known member
They should know by now that I am a bit daffy