7djengo7
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Ha! Always like it when things like that happen to catch my eye!12 year anniversary of the thread, interesting.
Ha! Always like it when things like that happen to catch my eye!12 year anniversary of the thread, interesting.
This is you reading your doctrine into the text and ignoring an obvious figure of speech. If your interpretation of this verse was correct and applied consistently, it would not be the image that was the firstborn of creation is would be God the Son Himself that was created because the verse would be saying the Jesus is both the image and the firstborn, not that the image is the firstborn. The chief problem (there are many) with this is that Jesus Himself was not created but is THE Creator. Your doctrine has Jesus creating Himself, which is obviously not true.One way to discover the identity of Jesus is to consider some new possibilities. Reconsider scripture no much discussed or thought about.
One, which opened my eyes, was Genesis 1: 26 God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."
My thoughts were triggered toward truth about God rather than the image he was forming for mankind.
QUESTION: What did I see?
Ans. God already had a literal image. ...
- I remembered John 17 where Jesus said he had that image [iow, shared that image] with the Father before the world was and wanted to have it back. I happen to believe he knew the Father would do this but he probably prayed out loud in order to inform those listening of some truth ...
- I remembered how Colossians 1:15 insinuates that this image belonging to God was the first born of every creature. Verse15 [Jesus] who is the IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD, [the image being] THE FIRST BORN OF EVERY CREATURE God created. You see the first born of every creature is an appositive of the noun image. IOW, the appositive restates the identity of the noun- THE IMAGE = THE FIRST BORN OF EVERY CREATURE.
God does not have a created image other than Adam who was created in His image and Jesus Christ who did not have a physical body until it was conceived in Mary's womb.
- The image was created for God's purposes and is not the invisible God, but rather a chosen living walking talking visible form which literally shows to eyes of men and angels that God has entered into his creation.
- I also remembered how OT prophets described how they had seen God's presence in dreams and visions - proving just how super-natural God's OT image was for it could show up in any realm... even as the essence of the things dreams are made of.
- I remembered how he showed up safely to people rather than a raging Shekinah dangerous full glory as once happened for Moses. Ezekiel is just one such prophet. [Ez. 1:26-28]
- He appeared to Samson's parents to talk with them and then disappeared in the flames of a fire built for cooking. [I Sam. 13:3-5; I Sam. 9-20]]
- He showed himself safely before 74 leaders of Israel and they saw God and ate a meal in his presence. [Ex. 24:9-11]
Now, if the invisible spiritual God presented his created image in the OT to represent himself visually unto men, then he certainly could have produce it once again in our natural realm. In the OT he had names like: Almighty God, The LORD, the LORD God, the Father of Israel - as in Jer.31:9; Isa 64; Deu 32; Ps 103 ...
This image of the Father LORD God was the glorious presence/image which Jesus had [shared] with the Father before the world was. A created image for God's use. [I venture to suggest that whenever one saw the Father they had seen the pre-incarnate image of the promised Savior. And, that this is probably the reason Jesus could honestly say: When you have seen me, you have seen the Father. Another time Jesus said something like this: If you knew who I am, you should have known the Father, but you have neither seen HIS SHAPE nor HEARD HIS VOICE. Yet, if you believe not what I say, at least believe the things I do.
Now why would God have created an image for himself before creation if he did not plan to use it???
Well, these revelations above just showed me one aspect of how Jesus was/is God -the I AM. He was allowed to use God's image to come in the world as Emanuel.
No one needs your help to read the bible. Your additions are just you reading your doctrine into the text.Matthew 1:23, 25
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us... And he [Joseph] knew her not her till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he [Joseph] called his name JESUS.
Jesus was identified not only as Emmanuel/God with us but else where also as a son of man and The Son of God.
IOW, Jesus was - The ONE God, the promised ONE, born as a son of man and bearing the form of God while it was without the super-natural glory. In this form of an individual God dwelt within his own creation and among mankind as the begotten Savior.
Isaiah 43:11
I [the spiritual God], even I, AM the LORD [God seen as the visible Father called The LORD of Israel]; beside me [as God the Spirit bearing my visible form named LORD] there is NO OTHER Savior.
IOW, Jesus, the man, was God in spirit and was seen bearing the glorious presence of the LORD - but the glory of Jesus was only seen as flesh.
John 3:34-35
For he [Jesus, the living WORD of God] whom God hath sent [into the world] speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him [Jesus]. The Father loveth the Son [Jesus], and hath given ALL THINGS into his hand.
We're still waiting for you to answer the questions I've been asking you about your ravings. So far, you have never yet answered either of them:if you have questions, ask
So, I asked you this question:I believe there is ONE God...
@Ps82: <NO ANSWER, STILL>Do you mean you believe only one person is God? [Yes or No?]
So, I asked you this question:I believe Jesus was God appearing in flesh
@Ps82: <NO ANSWER, STILL>By your word "God" are you referring to the Father? Yes or No?
You ain't movin' on with anybody, as long as you continue in your inability and failure to answer simple Yes/No questions such as these and others you've been asked about your own use of words you have chosen to use in your ravings, and as long as you continue in your lying about your glaring failure to have answered them.I'm moving on to people who know scripture and can put things together.