Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

[God's Truth]

Jehovah/YHVH God is NOT seated on "the throne of his FATHER David"..... for MANY reasons. David is NOT Jehovah's father, and, Jehovah has HIS OWN THRONE. A throne He shared with His son.

David was sitting on a throne over Israel. David was sitting on God's throne because God was the one over Israel. The Israelites wanted a man over them; and that is why they had Saul as their king and then David.
The throne David has was a throne over Israel. Jesus is over Israel, and over the whole universe.

Jesus was GIVEN the "throne of his father David"..... because Jesus is a descendant of David. And because Jesus is the SPECIFIC descendant promised to sit on that throne.

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

 

[God's Truth]

The House of Jacob is the Israelites. They are the blood descendants of Jacob, the Jewish nation.

The Jews wanted an earthly king.

1 Samuel 8:6 But the thing was displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." And Samuel prayed to the LORD. 7 The LORD said to Samuel, "Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them. 8"Like all the deeds which they have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this day-- in that they have forsaken Me and served other gods-- so they are doing to you also.

1 Samuel 8:19 Nevertheless, the people refused to listen to the voice of Samuel, and they said, "No, but there shall be a king over us

20 that we also may be like all the nations, that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles."


This throne was a throne of the kingdom of God.


1 Chronicles 28:5 Of all my sons--and the LORD has given me many--he has chosen my son Solomon to sit on the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel.


This was the last time there was an earthly king over God's kingdom:

Ezekiel 21:25 “…and thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.”


Jesus is the righteous one who would set on the throne.

Isaiah 16:5“And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.”

Amos 9:11“In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:”

So we see from the scriptures that the earthly throne of Israel was actually God's throne.

We can see from the scriptures that the Jews wanted a man to sit on that throne.

That does not negate the truth being that THAT THRONE David end up having was God's throne, but on earth because that is what the Jews wanted. They rejected God and chose an earthly king.

Jesus is the righteous one who is NOW SITTING on that throne.

When Jesus comes again, it will be at the resurrection of the dead.

That is the last judgment and when all enemies are put under him.

THEN the NEW JERUSALEM will come down on the NEW EARTH---and Jesus HANDS OVER THE KINGDOM to the Father.

Jesus is Ruler of everything, not just over an earthly Israel.

 

[genuineoriginal]

So you believe that Jesus is a son ... but not God?

The Bible tells us that God sent His only begotten Son into the world: one being (God) sent another being (the Son of God) into the world.

John 3:16-19 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.​

So you believe that Jesus is ... still deity but not God?

The Bible tells us that Jesus was made so much better than the angels and that all the angels of God worship Him.
If that doesn't show that Jesus is deity, then what would show that?

Hebrews 1:4-6 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Jesus is on God's throne, and Jesus has the name above all names. So you still don't want to call him 'God' and honor him as God?

Please read this verse and try to understand why God is not in subjection to the Son of God.

1 Corinthians 15:27 AMP 27 For He (the Father) has put all things in subjection under His (Christ’s) feet. But when He says, “All things have been put in subjection [under Christ],” it is clear that He (the Father) who put all things in subjection to Him (Christ) is excepted [since the Father is not in subjection to His own Son].​

Pay better attention then...since God says only obey Me

Where?

and He (God) says obey Jesus---then Jesus must be God.

God (the Father of Jesus) put all things in subjection under Christ's (the Son of God's) feet, so everything has to obey Jesus.
But, the one thing that God did not put under the Son of God's feet is God Himself.

The earthly example (shadow) of this is found in these verses:

Genesis 41:39-43 39 And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art: 40 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou. 41 And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt. 42 And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck; 43 And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee: and he made him ruler over all the land of Egypt.​

Joseph was made ruler over all of the things Pharaoh ruled except Pharaoh himself, but Joseph was not Pharaoh.

 

[God's Truth]

Please read this verse and try to understand why God is not in subjection to the Son of God.

1 Corinthians 15:27 AMP 27 For He (the Father) has put all things in subjection under His (Christ’s) feet. But when He says, “All things have been put in subjection [under Christ],” it is clear that He (the Father) who put all things in subjection to Him (Christ) is excepted [since the Father is not in subjection to His own Son].​

That means that Jesus is not over God the Father. It does not mean Jesus isn't God.

Paul is making sure that no one makes up anything about Jesus being over God the Father.

 

[God's Truth]

The Bible tells us that God sent His only begotten Son into the world: one being (God) sent another being (the Son of God) into the world.

John 3:16-19 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.​

God came to earth AS A SON OF GOD. Jesus is God coming to earth as a man. Jesus is the Word of God and IS GOD. He came to earth and became flesh.

The Bible tells us that Jesus was made so much better than the angels and that all the angels of God worship Him.
If that doesn't show that Jesus is deity, then what would show that?

Since you believe Jesus is deity, why do you keep going against people calling him 'God'?

 

[God's Truth]

In other words, you don't believe that God Sent His Son.


Why should I doubt what Jesus stated?

John 10:36b 36b [JESUS]I said, I am the Son of God[/JESUS]​

I am not one of the people that plan to stand in front of Him and try to correct Him by telling Him, "No, no, you meant to say you are God."

When you stand before Jesus one day, are you ever going to say where is the Father? Are you ever going to say when am I going to see the Father?

 

[genuineoriginal]

I said Jesus and the Father are both God
I did not say Jesus is the Father

The being named YHVH is called God throughout the entire Bible and is also called the Father in the New Testament.
The being named Jesus is the Son of YHVH.
Therefore, they can't both be the same being, so saying Jesus is God would be incorrect.

Are you trying (and failing) to say that the Father, known as God (proper noun) throughout the entire Bible, is a god (noun) and that the Son of God is also a god (noun)?

Or are you trying (and failing) to say that God (proper noun) is a title of the being named YHVH and that the being named Jesus, who is the Son of YHVH, also has the same title of God (proper noun)?

 

[genuineoriginal]

If Jesus is God we should worship him

The Bible never teaches that Jesus is God, so we shouldn't be quick to believe that Jesus is God.

if not he is a false christ and would be idolatry

You are mistaken about what qualifies Jesus to be the Messiah (Christ) and what constitutes idolatry (worship of objects).

 

[God's Truth]

Please read this verse and try to understand why God is not in subjection to the Son of God.

1 Corinthians 15:27 AMP 27 For He (the Father) has put all things in subjection under His (Christ’s) feet. But when He says, “All things have been put in subjection [under Christ],” it is clear that He (the Father) who put all things in subjection to Him (Christ) is excepted [since the Father is not in subjection to His own Son].​

God came as a man. Jesus is God come as a man and was given the highest name there is, which is God the Almighty.

Where?

You don't know that we are only to obey God?

God (the Father of Jesus) put all things in subjection under Christ's (the Son of God's) feet, so everything has to obey Jesus.
But, the one thing that God did not put under the Son of God's feet is God Himself.

Paul makes sure no ignorant and unstable people will ever say such ignorant and insane things.

The earthly example (shadow) of this is found in these verses:

Genesis 41:39-43 39 And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art: 40 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou. 41 And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt. 42 And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck; 43 And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee: and he made him ruler over all the land of Egypt.​

Joseph was made ruler over all of the things Pharaoh ruled except Pharaoh himself, but Joseph was not Pharaoh.

Jesus is the Word of God, and was God.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You just denied that God the Father is the ruler of the kings of the earth.

If God is having His Son Jesus rule under Him, and has put all of the kings of the earth under Jesus, how does that prevent God from being the ruler over the kings of the earth?

Do you not know what a hierarchy is and need to look it up in a dictionary?

 

[God's Truth]

The Bible never teaches that Jesus is God, so we shouldn't be quick to believe that Jesus is God.

Jesus is God and the Bible shows us many times.

 

[God's Truth]

If God is having His Son Jesus rule under Him, and has put all of the kings of the earth under Jesus, how does that prevent God from being the ruler over the kings of the earth?

Do you not know what a hierarchy is and need to look it up in a dictionary?

Jesus is ONE God the Father's THRONE.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I gave scripture that says Jesus is set on the Father's throne. I gave many scriptures showing it is the throne of God and the Lamb.
We are seated with him.

Are you claiming that we are God, since we are seated on the Father's throne?

 

[God's Truth]

What you said fails the test of Scripture, and the preaching of the apostles. I am not "just attacking you", in fact I am attacking your doctrine. It doesn't match Scripture.

..... that isn't a quote of Scripture .... The Power of the Highest came upon Mary, and caused MARY to conceive Jesus .... God's spirit didn't "come upon Jesus for another 30 years.
Again, you aren't using terminology from Scripture, and your statement isn't clear enough to know what you mean. Please, either use the Scriptures ..... or explain more clearly.

exactly.

What does that mean?? Where in Scripture would you find this notion explained??? You make up the WEIRDEST stuff, trying to justify complete nonsense.

Your denial and personal opinions are no defense for God's Truth. You are not disproving anything with scripture.

 

[God's Truth]

Are you claiming that we are God, since we are seated on the Father's throne?

No. Jesus puts us in and that proves Jesus is God and we are not.

 

[genuineoriginal]

God came to earth AS A SON OF GOD.

The Bible does not teach that God came to earth as His own Son.
The Bible teaches that God sent His only begotten Son to earth.

Jesus is God coming to earth as a man.

The Bible does not teach that God came to earth as a man.
The Bible teaches that the man Jesus is the Son of God, who God sent to earth.

Since you believe Jesus is deity, why do you keep going against people calling him 'God'?

I object to people changing what the Bible says (or ignoring what the Bible says) because of the non-Biblical doctrines of men that they have been taught to believe.

Being the Son of God means that Jesus by nature is deity, but being the Son of God also means that Jesus is not the same being as God who is Jesus' Father.

There is a difference between saying "the Son of God is also a god" and saying "the Son of God is God".

There is a difference between saying that "God sent His only begotten Son" and saying that "God is His own Son".

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again SonOfCaleb,

Adonai and Elohim mean Lord and are clearly titles and not the name of God.

Rather Adonai means Lord and Elohim means God and are usually translated this way, and are titles. For you to say that Elohim means Lord could be just a simple slip of the pen or keyboard, or rather it indicates that you have not examined this subject personally in detail, but partaken of the general JW environment which discourages personal research and understanding from the Scriptures and also using outside resources. I doubt that you have personal study resources, such as language resources and commentaries and this situation was revealed to me by my JW contact.

The consonants for Yahweh and Jehovah are different. Yahweh being 2 syllables and Jehovah 4 syllables.

This is simply incorrect. There are four consonants for YHWH or YHVH in the Hebrew Bible, and occasionally this is abbreviated to two consonants, for example in Isaiah 12:2 where the two and four consonants occur as Yah Yahweh. The NKJV shows this distinction, but obscures the fact that this is YH YHWH. The NWT Study edition has the following footnote ““Jah” is a shortened form of the name Jehovah.” The difference between Yahweh and Jehovah is that Yahweh is generally recognised as the correct addition of the vowels, while Jehovah is generally recognised as an incorrect addition of the vowels based on an incorrect reading of the Masoretic text. There are two versions of YHWH in this Masoretic text, one with the vowels of Adonai, and the other the vowels of Elohim. These were a prompt to a reader or speaker to read Adonai or Elohim instead of the Sacred Name. The error of “Jehovah” arose when a Catholic writer used these vowels in one version of the Masoretic text to incorrectly pronounce Jehovah or rather Jehovah in written form, the first ever occurrence, never by a Jewish writer who knew the reason for the consonants..

Either way the importance is the USE of the divine name and not the semantics around the pronounciation. As Jehovah's Witnesses we use the name Jehovah as this has been the most recognised and widely translated pronounciation and use of the name for hundreds of years. Suggest you also watch the Youtube documentary link i posted too if you're interested.

Yes the JWs perpetuate many errors in their practice and teaching and their adopted Name JW is a silent testimony to this. I suggest that you read Rotherham’s introduction. Possibly a JW member would have a copy, or there may be a copy in the Kingdom Hall reference library if there is such a thing. I have a personal copy and our reference library at our hall also has a copy for the members and visitors.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[genuineoriginal]

When you stand before Jesus one day, are you ever going to say where is the Father? Are you ever going to say when am I going to see the Father?

Nope, I won't need to say that.

Acts 7:55-56 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.​

What are you planning to say when you see Jesus standing on the right hand of God?

 

[MennoSota]

Your theory utterly fails these tests;
Acts 17:11 .... they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.


1 Cor 15:1-2 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.


2 Cor 11:4 .... or if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached ..






Agreed! Jesus did NOT have his God's spirit, UNTIL his God ANOINTED him with the Spirit.

Please tell me what cult you attend.
Your verses have nothing to do with the deity of Christ. You argue away the scriptures that declare Jesus is God with us. Everything about you screams cult member. So be a good person and tell me what cult I am speaking against.