Nope. The Mosaic Law has been completed, taken out of the way, nailed to Christ's cross. The Church is now under the New Testament law.... with the liberty to view everyday the same .... and the ONLY limitations on dietary things are: things strangled, and blood.
Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God
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Of course not. Nor did God command Jesus to lie, when Jesus asked "what did MOSES command you". The "lawgivers" are, Moses and Jesus of Nazareth. The LAW was commanded TO THEM, by their God, Jehovah/YHVH.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Having read through most of it, I found it the same ole same ole stuff that a student of scripture would find bewildering.
When you pull a couple of verses out of scripture and force it to say something that contradicts other scriptures, and think you are right, well, is it worth anyone's effort to straighten out the mess that that kind of thinking generates?
I have tried, but to no avail
To try again for people who stubbornly refuse to even consider scriptures that contradict their private interpretation is not worth anyone's time
It might be fun sometimes, but is generally fruitless.
" Jesus "breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit..." (John 20:22). "
The KJV correctly has the word "them" in italics because there is no corresponding Greek word there.
the word "en" should be translated "in" not "on"
Therefore their conclusion is wrong because their premise is wrong.
Of course, that won't stop a trinitarian, why should any scripture stop a trinitarian from thinking they are right?
And then there is the statement:
"God is not revealed to "be" love in any other religion in the world other than Christianity because in order for there to be love, there must be a beloved. "
My emphasis in the bold characters. So where does scripture teach that?
So as is typical, trinitarians will out and out contradict what God says of himself in scripture.
God is love I John 4:8 He does not someone to love to be himself.
He is what He is without anyone to assist him.
God is love whether there is anyone to love or not.
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So then you agree, that Jesus is God, because the commandments are God's commandments, because Jesus called them His (Jesus') commandments.
Thank you for conceding that Jesus is God.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Seems to me that the RC thinks God would be lost without the RC's to hold His hand
For the sake of those reading these posts, there isn't any point discussing this utterly dishonest post.
Any objective reader (non-troll) can see for themselves the distortions of this post.
:blabla:
Dartman = :allsmile:
You say I'm dishonest, but you won't show how.
My assertion is that Jesus calls the commandments given to Moses "My commandments" BECAUSE THEY ARE HIS.
But they are God's commandments, because God put them onto the stone tablets for Moses, they aren't Moses' commandments, they are God's.
Either Jesus is God, and was telling the truth that the commandments are His commandments, or Jesus is a liar, and was lying about the commandments being His commandments, because His God told Him to lie about it.
Those are the only two options.
I challenge you to come up with a third.
If you cannot, then you must concede one of the two above options.
Here are the consequences of those two options, for you to consider:
Consequence 1 (Jesus is God): Your entire worldview is destroyed, and you need to reconsider almost everything you believe.
Consequence 2 (Jesus is a liar): The ENTIRE Bible should be discarded or at the very least, seriously revised, as the main character in the New Testament, who was prophesied to come repeatedly in the Old Testament, is shown to be a liar, which puts everything He taught into question. It also means that God Himself cannot be trusted.
7djengo7
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What (if anything) do you think you mean by "originated with", here? Obviously, since that's YOUR phrase, and not the Bible's, you'll need to try to explain what (if anything) you think you mean when you say that "NONE of those originated with Jesus".
In John 14:24 KJV, Jesus says:
He did NOT say:
Clearly, Jesus refers to His sayings as "my sayings" (τοὺς λόγους μου--"the words of me"). Do you wish to deny that the words of Jesus are of Jesus?
Aimiel
Well-known member
My Bible says that He was in the world, the world was made by Him and the world knew Him not. You're of the world.
No, you pretend to know things ABOUT Him, because if you knew Him, He'd lead you to knowledge and understanding of His Word, which clearly shows Him being God, in The Flesh. The spirit you have is a lying spirit of religion, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with God. It is pretending to be God to keep you from Jesus' Presence.
Your posts show how.
Where do you find this in Scripture?JR said:
Jesus NEVER called the commandments given to Moses "My commandments".
Jesus stated the origin of the commandments JESUS received, was his God.
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Correct.
And, he sent his apostles "into the world" exactly like his God sent Jesus "into the world".
John 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Of course not.A said:
I am in the world, but not of the world.
Tell me, what do you think that means?
Obviously, Jehovah/YHVH God is the source of the words (logos) Jesus spoke..... at least, according to JESUS the logos he spoke and the apostles heard, was his GOD's logos.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings (logos): and the word (logos) which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
aww man....sooo close...what was taken away was the hand written ordinances like a ticket ordnance to the law you broke...the ticket to you is paid the law remains...you believe lying jews that claimed Stephen taught yahushua changed the customs delivered by Moses...that was jewish FALSE WITNESS and desperate attempt to SLANDER...as Stephen did NOT teach that...
yup...and His last will and testament was written PRIOR HIS DEATH...after which it is implemented...no changes after the testator is dead...that NEW TESTAMENT is what He taught and HOW HE LIVED...demonstrated...and asked us to follow HIM HIS WAY...if we love Him
Romans 14 is about diet fasting traditions NOTHING about the Sabbath there...
even here you are sloppy or deliberately ingnoring...as they are not to eat meats offered to idols...
and James concluded the council expecting the goyim to keep hearing Moses preached and read in every city on every Sabbath...
so well Heb 9:4
7djengo7
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Not logos(s.) and logos (s.), like you say, but τοὺς λόγους (the words (p.)) and ὁ λόγος (the word (s.)). You really can't distinguish between a plural noun and a singular noun? You are given to lying regarding even the most elementary things.
Now what (if anything) do you think you mean by your phrase, "God is the source of the words Jesus spoke"? I had asked you what (if anything) you meant by your earlier phrase, "originated with", and now, you've merely handed me yet another of your phrases (also not to be found in Scripture), and you've still explained nothing.
You must have ignored them.
Here, I'll post them again:
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. . . . He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” - John 14:15,21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John14:15,21&version=NKJV
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. . . . This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. - John 15:10,12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John15:10,12&version=NKJV
The entirety of the law is summed up:
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” - Galatians 5:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians5:14&version=NKJV
Jesus is claiming this law:
Exodus-Deuteronomy
Is HIS.
Jesus makes no mention of "God's" commandment, but claims them as His own.
And yet, what you're talking about is almost completely unrelated to my point.
Was Jesus a liar for calling the law "My commandments"? Or were they God's, and He, being God, is telling the truth, they being His?
Yes.
No. It's talking about the Law Moses written out by hand, AND it's also called;clefty said:
2 Cor 3:7 ... the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones ...
The death sentence for many of the commandments is NOT just " a ticket".... and we all know what was engraven in stones ... the 10 commandments. The entire Mosaic Law is finished. Some commandments in Christ's New Testament are identical .... MANY of the Mosaic Law commandments are no longer relevant.
The Sabbath, temple worship, Levitical Priesthood, dietary laws ..... those are gone.
Yes.clefty said:
To a great extent, yes. His obedience, his knowledge of the Scriptures, his attitudes and values ... absolutely.clefty said:
But when discussing the elements mentioned above...Sabbath, Dietary Laws, etc. ..... Nope. He was still "under the Law".... the New Testament is a DIFFERENT Law.
You're only about half right. It IS about diet, AND it is about the Sabbath. Keeping of ANY day is purely optional now.clefty said:
Really???
So tell us, WHICH single word is Jesus talking about???
Aimiel
Well-known member
The apostles didn't make the world: Jesus DID! Ergo: He is God. :duh:
I think it means that you're deceived, because you don't believe that Jesus is God. You want to make Him equal to you. If you were of Heaven, you'd recognize Him. He isn't merely a man to those who believe. We recognize Him. He will recognize us. You: He will say, "I know you not." You don't know Him as God.
7djengo7
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Simple: the one about which He said "the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me." Do you disagree?
law was in stone by His finger
glorious and not destroyed
nope...the 10 were written in stone with nothing about getting stoned...that was written later and put on the side of the ark...a witness against YOU...me too
LOL which is it? Think NOT abolished or identical to His in the covenant He demonstrated
3 of the kosher ones are...you avoided those still...again...oh and the festivals...
From that list are STILL SHADOWS pointing to good things still to come:
Sabbath duh...dietary laws...festivals...
If they were gone Paul would NOT have written they ARE shadows but instead he would have written “were” Shadows
ok then SO DO WHAT HE DID...and He did His FATHER’S WILL...you know kept the LAW...so DO THAT as HE instructed...follow HIM HIS WAY...do JUST AS...as He lived and demonstrated the New Testament lifestyle...
LOL...He lived His last will and testament and instructed you follow AS HE DID...even pick up your cross...you cant change the testament once it is sealed...so you cant claim the New Testament is DIFFERENT than how He lived...no changes are allowed after the testator is dead...
Show me where in ROMANS 14 it is about the sabbath...
Show me where in Heb 4:9 is NOT
Show me where He did NOT expect Sabbath times and winter times to continue into the future Matt 24:20
Show me where it is NOT “Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah” but just some or it is NOT “and the faith OF Yahushua”
Show me where the faith of Yahushua is NOT KEEPING HIS FATHER’S WILL
Show me where Isaiah lied when he wrote from Sabbath to Sabbath ALL flesh will worship...
Show me where the Sabbath was NOT made for man...
It really cracks me up how people insist Sodom is still burning and then claim His FOREVER LAW is no more...
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