7djengo7
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Right on, Idolater!
Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God
- Thread starter Dartman
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Right on, Idolater!
The "world" is Cosmos... the civilization. That's what Jehovah sent Jesus from Nazareth to change. And what Jesus sent his apostles into.
Jesus' ministry, death and resurrection shaped the world of the NT, and still creates the world we live in today.
The Scriptures are impeccably clear, Jehovah/YHVH God created the Universe ...... including Jesus.
Sorry, your twisting these verses fails.
Typical excuse from someone who knows that if he answers the question, it shows him to be wrong in his beliefs.
Answer the question, Dartman.
Was Jesus a liar for calling the law "My commandments"? Or were they God's, and He, being God, is telling the truth, they being His?
Which single word?
You are avoiding the obvious failure of your claim.
Jesus used the singular logos to encompass ALL of the words he spoke.
Nope. He promised to raise up, to stand up physically, after his God raised him from the dead.
In other words; If you knock this body down, I will stand back up.
Jesus doesn't address the fact that it is his God that resurrected him in this verse.
But the NT is VERY clear, the Father raised Jesus from the dead;
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
7djengo7
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So far, you've stonewalled against these (though not only these) questions I asked you:
When Christians affirm the Bible truth that Jesus is God, and you, Christ-hater that you are, deny that truth by affirming your Satanic falsehood that Jesus is not God, you are referring, by the name "Jesus", to the same person to which we Christians are referring, by the name "Jesus".
I asked you:
Your answer was:
Since Christians know and claim that Jesus is God, and since you deny that Jesus is God, here, you are necessarily implying that Jesus is a FALSE GOD.
Your attempt to avoid owning what your claims necessarily entail is worse than pathetic. When asked, point blank, whether you would call Jesus a FALSE GOD, you say:
That's false, of course. But, even were it true...so what? You already said that a FALSE GOD is "Anything that people claim is God, other than Christ's God", and so, if Jesus were not God (but He is!), and, if Christians claim that Jesus is God (and ALL Christians claim that He is!), then it would necessarily follow from these things that Jesus is a FALSE GOD.
Of course, you're such a double-tongued Christ-hater, given wholly to irrationality, and to weaselly attempts at evasion, that, as we know, there is no way you're going to actually own up to your declaring that Jesus is a FALSE GOD.
Your puerile (almost comical) reaction amounts to something like "Oh, never! I don't say Jesus, himself is a False God; I say ANOTHER JESUS is a False God!"
But, since Trinitarians--that is, Christians--are referring to the same Jesus (when they say "Jesus is God") to which YOU are referring (when you, countering them, say "Jesus is NOT God"), you have shot yourself in the foot somethin' awful. That's the same Jesus which (own it or not) you have implied to be a FALSE GOD.
I've answered your question several times. The answer is always the same. Jesus is NOT a liar for calling the Law his God gave him, "my commandments". Jesus stated clearly, his Father is "the ONLY true God".
Now, YOU answer whether Jesus was a liar when he said his sayings, the words he spoke, were NOT his, they ARE his Fathers?
You just didn't like my answers.
Your questions are silly rather than clever, and are a VERY transparent attempt to deflect the conversation.
Jesus clearly spoke of "false Christs". Paul clearly warned about "another Jesus". It is OBVIOUS they are not discussing multiple TRUE Christ's.
Come up with better questions.
Here is a way you can do that.... stop trying so hard to reject the truth.
way 2 go
Well-known member
show us from the bible when Jesus was created without contradicting this verse
Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
and also Jesus said "my commandments" , so he was before Moses too ( hint Jesus is God, he wasn't created)
Joh 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Not honestly, you haven't.
Do the commandments belong to God? Are they His commandments?
Except God didn't give the law to Jesus. He gave the law to Moses.
Jesus called the commandments "My commandments," even though they were given to Moses.
Was He lying about them being His commandments, because they were not given to him, but to Moses instead? Or was He claiming to be God since He was the one who gave Moses the law?
:blabla:
Proof by repeated assertion is a logical fallacy.
Plus, I have addressed this many times.
"You (the Father), the only true God" does not inherently exclude the Son from being the only true God, nor does it inherently exclude the Holy Spirit from being the only true God.
That was also a red herring.
Another red herring.
Stay on topic.
Was Jesus lying about the commandments being His, since they, according to your logic, actually belonged to Moses, since God gave the commandments to Moses, and not Jesus?
Or was Jesus claiming to be God, because the commandments really are His, since all the commandments belong to God, and Jesus is God?
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7djengo7
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I just told you. Can't you read? I even asked you if you disagree, and, so far, as usual, no answer from you.
What claim? That Jesus said, on the one hand "my sayings" (pl.), and, on the other hand, "the word" (sg.)? Quote my exact words, wherein (according to your accusation) you imagine I am failing in a claim.
When? Where? Cite the Scripture(s) in which, as YOU claim, He did so, and explain exactly why you think that.
In John 14:24 KJV, Jesus used the plural, "my sayings", to encompass ALL of HIS sayings.
7djengo7
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You never gave me any answers, you lying Christ-hater! You persistently stonewall against my questions, and you lie to me. That's all you CAN do.
I've been looking at John 14 now. Recall that I am not a Christian, so I am reading it out of interest only. I see Jesus explaining the relationship between himself, his followers, and God.
As far as "commandments" is concerned- what is Jesus referring to? Maybe the following chapter (John 15) tells us:
The commandments of Jesus are not identical to God's commandments.
Food for thought.
Chair
20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and [f]manifest Myself to him.”
It's hard to claim identity between Jesus and God based on this. More like a special connection, parallel to what Jesus has with his followers.As far as "commandments" is concerned- what is Jesus referring to? Maybe the following chapter (John 15) tells us:
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
The commandments of Jesus are not identical to God's commandments.
Food for thought.
Chair
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
No problem. Jesus was praying for his Father to fulfill the glory God planned for Jesus "before the world existed".w2g said:
This text simply doesn't say what you think it says.
Sorry, Jesus saying "my commandments" is never in context discussing the Mosaic Law. IT is discussing "a better covenant", the New Testament, a new Law.w2g said:
All of the commandments from Genesis to Revelation originated with Jehovah/YHVH God, He commanded Adam and Eve, He commanded Noah, He commanded Abraham, and Moses and Jesus.
Both Moses and Jesus, as prophets\servants of Jehovah, gave those commandments FOR God, so the Scriptures state that "Moses commanded";
Lev 9:55 And they brought that which Moses commanded before the tabernacle of the congregation: and all the congregation drew near and stood before the Lord.
Num 34:13
13 And Moses commanded the children of Israel, saying, This is the land which ye shall inherit by lot, which the Lord commanded to give unto the nine tribes, and to the half tribe:
Num 36:5
5 And Moses commanded the children of Israel according to the word of Jehovah, saying, The tribe of the sons of Joseph speaketh right.
Deut 31:10
10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of (every) seven years, in the set time of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,
Deut 31:25-26
25 that Moses commanded the Levites, that bare the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, saying,
26 Take this book of the law, and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of Jehovah your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
Deut 33:4
4 Moses commanded us a law, An inheritance for the assembly of Jacob.
Josh 8:35
35 There was not a word of all that Moses had commanded which Joshua did not read before all the assembly of Israel with the women and the little ones and the strangers who were living among them.
Matt 8:4
4 And Jesus said to him, "See that you tell no one; but go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them."
Mark 1:44
44 and He said to him, "See that you say nothing to anyone; but go, show yourself to the priest and offer for your cleansing what Moses commanded, as a testimony to them."
Luke 5:14
14 And He ordered him to tell no one, "But go and show yourself to the priest and make an offering for your cleansing, just as Moses commanded, as a testimony to them."
Of course I did. You just didn't like the answers.
The king is supposed to know the law. That Jesus did. Your argument for this as being proof of something else is lame.
Jesus was not perfect which is the meaning the word Agathos which is wrongly translated good.
So you admit to image-worship by "seeing" it.
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