Isn't it reasonable to doubt Young Earth Creationism?

[JudgeRightly]

JudgeRightly, I have to give credit where credit is due. At least you are not one of the many on this forum who criticise everyone and everything without ever revealing their hand. Here you have presented a cogent, comprehensive, complete theory which explains why sin can only be transferred through the male. You are completely and utterly wrong, and this theory, (new to my ears), is completely nonsensical. But well done for some original thinking.

Your theory is wrong because if sin is passed down in the genes,

I'll stop you there, because that's not what I said.

I said that the sin nature is inherited from the father, not the mother. If it was through the mother, then Jesus would have inherited that same sin nature from Mary. Yet He didn't, therefore we know that it's passed down from the father.

And no, not through genetics.

male and female genes are routinely swapped every generation. If sin is passed down through physical molecules, these are renewed and replaced. Thus your theory does not attempt to explain where sin resides, in a portion of anatomy possessed only by males.

It's not something that's physical, nor is it non-physical (such as information, emotion, etc).

But I knew your theory was incorrect simply because sin is NOT passed down from father to child. The sins of the fathers are NOT imputed to children. Every human is condemned to die because every human him/herself sins. Thus each of us are 100% responsible for our own death.

Where did I say otherwise?

I do believe I said "sin nature." Have you never heard of that term?

In fact this is not even the full story. All that happened in Eden is that mankind was cut off from the Tree of Life, and hence every human was condemned to die, even if that human never sinned once in his/her whole life. There is life only through befriending Jesus. The gift of God is eternal life. None of us are born with this gift. Each and every one of us has to personally intreat God for this gift.

Trying to force "grace alone" salvation into the Old Testament doesn't work, iouae... But that's changing the topic.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Because there is nothing simpler to comprehend than what was created on the 7th day.

You still have yet to tell us what was created on the seventh day, vowels. Scripture says God rested from creating. And sanctifying something isn't creating it.

If one is lost understanding that the Sabbath was created by God resting on the Sabbath setting an example for mankind - then you will utterly be lost explaining the other 6 days.

Sanctified != created.

You need to first show what and how something was created on the seventh day using scripture. If you can't do that, then your position is untenable, and you need to consider alternatives.

For instance if I were to ask you what light was created on day one - you would be utterly unable to explain it since the sun was only created (according to your mindset) on day 4.

Light itself was created on Day 1. God created the sun and stars on day 4.

Problem?

I totally and utterly expect you to ignore FACTS like the geologic column. It's far to factual for those who like theology and philosophy.

That wasn't his point. You made an argument from incredulity. Either provide substance, or retract your "Absurd."

Noah's flood is just one of dozens or possibly hundreds of mass extinctions,

Because you say so?

The Hydroplate Theory of the Global Flood of Noah explains everything we see in nature, the ENTIRE geologic column, which you keep trying to claim for your own argument, and other things such as the asteroid belt, the angle, orbit, rotation of the earth, the craters on mostly the earth-facing side of the moon, and even the weather throughout the world.

each of which brought the curtain down on one set of organisms, and raised the curtain on another biome.

Nope. Saying it doesn't make it so, vowels.

There was one event, and that was the Global flood.

If there was only one flood in earth's history, then there would not be the neat sorting of individuals into dinosaurs below, mammals above etc.

Which just goes to show how little you know about the physics of such an event. I highly recommend going to http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/IntheBeginningTOC.html and just reading through it. It answers most if not all of your "challenges"

 

[Lon]

Here you are right Lon. Death entered the human condition when one woman, Eve sinned.

This verse speaks nothing about death being present in food chains since the pre-Cambrian.

And until the Holocene, there were no humans around to sin - but in all the previous fossil layers before the Holocene we find fossils with other animals in their mouths and stomachs - showing its a FACT that there was plenty of death and dying of animals before the appearance of man on earth.

You are intermixing assumptions though. We really don't know, despite what scientists speculate. While scientists without God have nothing but to accept theories, Christians must necessarily always filter those by the God who made it all and what He says. I personally cannot buy what you are selling until and unless God weighs in. There are clear discrepancies and gaps in knowledge that only He can resolve.

The fossil record of animals found in other fossil animals mouths and stomachs shows 6days IS wrong, and that you are wrong too in playing the "we just don't know" card. We do know. The fossil record is brutal and bloody. T. rex was eating Triceratops long before Adam planted a footprint on planet earth.

You 'think' you know. Look, I've been through enough science classes to know what is made of glass and sits on sand. Firm science is that which everyone accepts without controversy. The "science" community is still producing cancerous food additives. Er, sorry, that's NOT science. It is experimenting with rats, and we are the rats. You REALLY need to question both the motives AND outcomes of the scientific community. I believe science is a good thing. I also believe it is only good in the hands of scientists who are truly interested in the welfare of mankind and above board. Even then, someone can still get it wrong. Between God and man? ONLY man gets it wrong. God doesn't.

Bible-fact - sin entered the world through one woman - she knowingly disobeyed God after quoting to the snake that they were not to eat the fruit.

Are you claiming that a) the woman never sinned b) the woman never sinned first c) women don't count

:nono: Bible assumption. When Eve ate, Adam was right there next to her and equally took of the fruit. Woman was duped. Man never was. He was right there. 1 Timothy 2:14 doesn't say man didn't sin. It says he wasn't deceived. He sinned for a different reason. You might speculate that reason: a choice between love of God and love of Eve, or other. Try not to posture unbendingly over your speculations.

Do yourself a favour and study the geologic column for a while.

The geologic column has nothing to do with evolution, but everything to do with successive creative events on the part of a Creator over time. The creation of Adam 6000 years ago was not God's first rodeo.

I have and aced the class. Do yourself a favor by contrast, and read your Bible more than scientific speculations. You are cherry-picking what you like at that point without first going to the Maker of it all. He gets the say here, not fallible man, no matter how good you think it looks. As I said, I love science and try not to fault them for getting it wrong. When it becomes political and entrenched, it no longer serves Christians. I don't have to compromise God for science. That was and will never be on the table. It isn't reasonable for an expectation.

 

[iouae]

I have and aced the class.

Well Lon, I am pleased that you aced the class on the geologic column.

For many Christians that class would be like garlic to a vampire.

The geologic column tells me what God has been occupied with over the last 13.75 billion years - and I can see that the Creator is very creative, loves biology, and has made some very marvellous communities of creatures in the past.

 

[Truster]

Well Lon, I am pleased that you aced the class on the geologic column.

For many Christians that class would be like garlic to a vampire.

The geologic column tells me what God has been occupied with over the last 13.75 billion years - and I can see that the Creator is very creative, loves biology, and has made some very marvellous communities of creatures in the past.

From what I gather from your heretical nonsense. The Cape Baboons are distant relatives of yours. I have Adam as a distant relative and The Last Adam as King and Saviour.

 

[iouae]

From what I gather from your heretical nonsense. The Cape Baboons are distant relatives of yours. I have Adam as a distant relative and The Last Adam as King and Saviour.

You could only say that the Cape baboons are relatives of mine if you are an evolutionist. I say baboons and man were special creations made uniquely by God at the same time. So I am in no doubt as to who is the heretical ignoramus, between the two of us.

You are just another religious type who demonstrates an utter disregard for the facts every time he opens his mouth. Try to find out what I believe before you open your mouth again and demonstrate more ignorance.

 

[way 2 go]

Don't start talking about evidence, Vowels is too busy venting.

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while he vents ...

Fact : no erosion in the layers

http://kgov.com/formation-of-the-grand-canyon

Notice that the layers of the Grand Canyon, revealing buried strata like nowhere else on Earth, show that the sedimentary layers have characteristically flat, horizontal, and parallel boundaries, not unlike laminated wood.

If the secular model were correct, and this mile deep stacking of sediments were laid down over hundreds of millions of years, then erosion, which is constant and relentless, would guarantee that there would be no such parallel uniformity to the boundaries of these layers. The vast majority of the Earth's sedimentary layers were laid down rapidly. Their minerals were agitated into their varying degrees of characteristic purity and conformity by a process known as liquefaction. This liquefaction was powered by both the fluttering crust and a year's worth of the crest and trough of global tidal waves pressing water into and effectively pulling it out of the increasingly deposited sediments. Thus the widespread flat gaps between sedimentary strata (also known as paraconformities, parallel strata with no apparent erosion) were formed globally on the continents.

 

[Stripe]

Because there is nothing simpler to comprehend than what was created on the 7th day. If one is lost understanding that the Sabbath was created by God resting on the Sabbath setting an example for mankind - then you will utterly be lost explaining the other 6 days. For instance if I were to ask you what light was created on day one - you would be utterly unable to explain it since the sun was only created (according to your mindset) on day 4.

:dizzy:

We should call you the king of the non sequitur.

How would the inability to explain what Day 1's light was show that "six days" cannot mean what it plainly says?

I totally and utterly expect you to ignore FACTS like the geologic column. It's far to factual for those who like theology and philosophy.

Begging the question — petitio principii, a logical fallacy in which one assumes the statement under examination to be true — will remain a logical fallacy no matter how many times you use it.

The geological column is a concept that assumes the Darwinist worldview. We do not assume its veracity.

You spent a lot of time trying to deconstruct theory, but now you seem utterly sold out to one.

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[Lon]

Well Lon, I am pleased that you aced the class on the geologic column.

For many Christians that class would be like garlic to a vampire.

The geologic column tells me what God has been occupied with over the last 13.75 billion years - and I can see that the Creator is very creative, loves biology, and has made some very marvellous communities of creatures in the past.

:nono: I raised my hand a lot. Didn't you? "How do we know Dr. Thomas?" Whatever you 'think' you know is a best guess and extrapolation. Sorry, fact. You CAN'T debate facts. They are what they are. Opinions and best guesses aren't. You can think the earth is as old as you like. Me? I'm not cocky and arrogant. I easily will wait until I talk to my Lord and God. You go ahead and posture foolishly. Have at it.

Be completely honest. You don't know. I'm brilliant and I don't know. I'm positive nobody is capable of doing what I cannot do myself. I have to ask God. The ball is in your court, but you get no points for posturing in the dark 'as if.'

 

[iouae]

Me? I'm not cocky and arrogant. ... I'm brilliant and I don't know.

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble...

 

[iouae]

:dizzy:

How would the inability to explain what Day 1's light was show that "six days" cannot mean what it plainly says?

If you have no idea what God even made on day 1, how can you be so certain this was not Day1 of the new world, and not Day 1 ever?

Since some have no idea what kind of light God created on Day1, let me help you there ...

In the beginning God created the heavens and earth.

God did not mess this up, so that earth was left after He made it in the beginning, "without form and void". God made it suited to its purpose, which was to support life.

But the very FACTUAL geologic column shows many biomes such as dinosaurs living and dying out in a mass extinction. Thus the geologic column shows that earth has undergone many biomes and many mass extinctions.

The last mass extinction left earth covered with water, without form and void.

So God's spirit hovers on the surface of the water covering earth. From this perspective, God commands there be light on Day 1 (Sunday). So the watery atmosphere clears enough that SUNLIGHT can penetrate to where the spirit of God is hovering. So, the sun, (which was already there for 4 billion years prior, and since Genesis 1 where in the beginning God created the heaven and earth) shines through to the surface of the earth. And we all know it takes light to support life. This is Day 1 of the new earth, on which God planned to place mankind, 6 days later. But it was not the first day of the creation's existence. This was Day 1 of the renewed earth. We know it was not day one ever, because in the beginning God had (already) created the heaven and earth (Gen 1:1), long before Day 1 of God renewing the earth (Gen 1:3).

On day 4 God appoints the sun and moon and heavens as signs and seasons. Just like God appointed the rainbow after the flood to remind us of God's covenant not to flood earth again - so the sun and moon are set for signs and seasons, such as every 7th day (sunset) is a Sabbath.

Before God created man on earth it did not matter which day of the week was Day 1. To the giant sloths, sabre toothed tigers, mastodons and wooly rhinoceroses roaming earth before Adam, it made no difference what day of the week it was since they were not required to keep the Sabbath. But when God created man, it was now important to name the days of the week in this new world. Because Christians wilfully blind themselves to the 7th day, the other six are a mystery to them too.

Christians are also blind to 4th day, where God set the sun and moon as signs and seasons for HOLY DAYS. God could care less that you know what month it is, except that God, from the beginning of the creation of man, had in mind that mankind would worship Him, and He set the sun and moon to mark out the holy convocations, when all would gather to worship Him. Thus Day 4 is lost on Christians too.

 

[Stripe]

If you have no idea what God even made on day 1, how can you be so certain this was not Day1 of the new world, and not Day 1 ever?

You're the king of the non sequitur. You can assert all the ignorance you like, but none of it will explain why "six days" cannot mean what it plainly says.

Since some have no idea what kind of light God created on Day1.

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ112.html#wp6480581

The very FACTUAL geologic column.

Begging the question is a logical fallacy no matter how often you try it.

Day 4 is lost on Christians too.

:blabla:

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[iouae]

You're the king of the non sequitur. You can assert all the ignorance you like, but none of it will explain why "six days" cannot mean what it plainly says.

Six days means 6 literal 24hr days, starting at sunset and ending at sunset.

So I know exactly what 6 days mean.

God definitely created the current heaven and earth - this iteration - in 6 days.

 

[Stripe]

Six days means 6 literal 24hr days, starting at sunset and ending at sunset.

So I know exactly what 6 days mean.

God definitely created the current heaven and earth - this iteration - in 6 days.

Bible says nothing about other "iterations."

Bible also says the whole world was destroyed in a global flood.

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[iouae]

Bible says nothing about other "iterations."

Bible also says the whole world was destroyed in a global flood.

The destruction of the pre flood world ended one iteration, where men lived to age 900 and started another iteration where men now live to 70.

When Christ returns there will be another mass extinction and new iteration called the Millennium. At the end of the Millennium, there comes a new iteration when Satan is destroyed and we have New Jerusalem.

So you yourself unmindfully admit there are iterations.

And try this logic on.

Why would God have created the world in the first place in a state of "tohu" and "bohu" meaning without form and void, or chaotic and confused? Why would God not just have done it perfectly, right from the start? Why would God have had to undo what he created originally, to have to renovate His poor original work?

Ans: God made it wonderful right from the start when the morning stars shouted for joy.

And the Geologic column shows iteration, on top of iteration on top of iteration... God has been creating since the preCambrian. He created spirit beings or angels long before that even. More iterations.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The destruction of the pre flood world ended one iteration, where men lived to age 900 and started another iteration where men now live to 70.

When Christ returns there will be another mass extinction and new iteration called the Millennium. At the end of the Millennium, there comes a new iteration when Satan is destroyed and we have New Jerusalem.

So you yourself unmindfully admit there are iterations.

And try this logic on.

Why would God have created the world in the first place in a state of "tohu" and "bohu" meaning without form and void, or chaotic and confused? Why would God not just have done it perfectly, right from the start? Why would God have had to undo what he created originally, to have to renovate His poor original work?

Ans: God made it wonderful right from the start when the morning stars shouted for joy.

And the Geologic column shows iteration, on top of iteration on top of iteration... God has been creating since the preCambrian. He created spirit beings or angels long before that even. More iterations.

I find it hilarious that you completely disregard Jesus' own words...

And Jesus answered and said to them, [JESUS]“Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’[/JESUS] - Mark 10:5-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark10:5-6&version=NKJV

Day 6 is, relatively speaking, at the beginning of creation (if it has been around 7 thousand years since Adam and Eve). Day 6 after millions/billions of years is at the end of creation (if it has been around 7 thousand years since Adam and Eve).

Who has more authority on the topic of origins and creation, you, being some random person on the internet, or Jesus, the Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth and other fine products?

 

[Jose Fly]

Lon: "There is no 'life' without oxygen and that requires mature plants, etc."

Stripe: "The "geological column" is an assumption of the Darwinist worldview."

And that's why one should never, ever rely on creationists for info about science.

 

[Jose Fly]

while he vents ...

Fact : no erosion in the layers

It always helps to actually look at reality.....

 

[6days]

If you have no idea what God even made on day 1, how can you be so certain this was not Day1 of the new world, and not Day 1 ever?

Simple answer... The Hebrew use of 'day1' instead of 'first day' indicates it was the absolute beginning.


Imagining that the creation account was a redo contradicts the nature of God and the Gospel.

God did not mess this up, so that earth was left after He made it in the beginning, "without form and void". God made it suited to its purpose, which was to support life.

uh.... of course God created it without form and empty at the beginning. His Word tells us He formed and filled the earth over the course of six days.

But the very FACTUAL geologic column shows many biomes such as dinosaurs living and dying out in a mass extinction.

Of course the fossil layers are FACTUAL; However your interpretation is NOT. God's Word provides a clear understanding of why dinosaurs are found preserved in waterborne sediment, often in the opisthotonic / drowning position.

The last mass extinction left earth covered with water, without form and void.

The Bible talks about only 1 mass extinction in the past... and in Noahs time.

....on Day 1 (Sunday). So the watery atmosphere clears enough that SUNLIGHT can penetrate to where the spirit of God is hovering.

Actually... scripture tells us that God created the sun on the fourth day. (Genesis 1)

This was Day 1 of the renewed earth. We know it was not day one ever, because in the beginning God had (already) created the heaven and earth (Gen 1:1), long before Day 1 of God renewing the earth (Gen 1:3).

We know from Scripture that the creation account was not a re-do. Your false belief in billions of years contradicts scripture and leaves you unable to answer a basic question about the gospel. Why did Jesus have to physically die?

On day 4 God appoints the sun and moon and heavens as signs and seasons.

Actually.... scripture tells us that God made the sun on the fourth day. Why not trust Him?

Before God created man on earth it did not matter which day of the week was Day 1

The Sabbath was explained in the Book of Exodus, but surely was honored from the beginning.

Christians are also blind to 4th day, where God set the sun and moon as signs and seasons for HOLY DAYS.

Oh my.... why must you either twist... add to... or reject what God tells us. This is what His Word tells us. "And God said, " Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them be signs to mark the seasons, days, and years. Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth.” And that is what happened. God made two great lights—the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set these lights in the sky to light the earth, to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And evening passed and morning came, marking the fourth day."

 

[Stripe]

The destruction of the pre flood world ended one iteration.

The Bible says nothing about your "iterations."

We like evidence.

Why would God have created the world in the first place in a state of "tohu" and "bohu" meaning without form and void, or chaotic and confused? Why would God not just have done it perfectly, right from the start? Why would God have had to undo what he created originally, to have to renovate His poor original work?

We reject your characterization and stick with the scriptural description. On Day 1, God created the heavens and the Earth, and then spoke light into existence.

The Geologic column...

Is an invention of Darwinism.

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