Isn't it reasonable to doubt Young Earth Creationism?

[iouae]

Your defence of evolutionism shows you are threatened by facts. The FACT is that death entered our world because of one man's sin. Because of that fact (Not a theory) Last Adam subjected Himself to physical death in order to defeat death...the final enemy.

Both you and I believe in the Bible as being infallible. Any way you INTERPRET it is not a FACT but just your private view.

Facts are an altogether different thing from YOUR personal interpretation of the Bible which YOU ALONE consider as facts. Are you the Pope, that you speak ex cathedra?

 

[6days]

Both you and I believe in the Bible as being infallible. Any way you INTERPRET it is not a FACT but just your private view.

What you are saying, is that you reject what God's Word plainly says.

HIS Word tells us death entered our world because of one man's sin.

Iouae.... why did Jesus have to physically die?

 

[Lon]

I don't remember writing any platitudes. Everything I write has some real meaning, it's not just meant to sound impressive.

You give that up when you say 'logic' is man-made. You are simply running off what matters to you, by preference and whim.

Don't want to do what?

Give up your ways, your rights, your desires, regardless of if they are actually good for you or others. You simply don't care whether God exists or not. It has nothing to do with a cognitive dissonance. You simply don't want what's real, whether it is real or not. "Reality" has no bearing on the way you choose to live. It simply is and specifically is, your desires, your whims, your egocentrism.

What is 'the material plain'?

Er "Plane."

I don't like the nasty world described in the Judeo-christian book of talking snakes, and I am glad it's not true.

I really don't know what world you are living in. The world is certainly worse off post-judeo Christian. Before? We knew who was evil and who was not and ostracized those who were. Now? Going to school with guns and we identify them now, too late.

Is THAT the 'real' world you prefer? :think:

I would prefer you didn't, or at least don't tell me about it. As you might have heard, research on the effects of intercessory prayer show that heart surgery patients who know they are being prayed for are more likely to die of complications. And that would be really bizarre because I haven't had heart surgery.

Er, bogus research, frankly. I continue to pray for you. The worst MIGHT happen: You might have eyes that finally see :think:

Perhaps get back to us on what the 'material plain' is, and then we will know what you mean by 'beyond it'.

Snarky over spelling? :idunno: It doesn't look like an 'educated' comment to me.

Then you could tell us what the purpose of name-checking Einstein, Hitchens, Hawking and Dawkins was.

Yep, in a nutshell, you are asserting beyond your pay grade.

And if it turns out that none of that precludes the publication of a photograph of your god, then perhaps you could post that too.

Stuart

Sure. Show me a photograph of Caesar, or Cleopatra, or Shakespeare. That or drop lame excuses that are brainless and mindless strawmen. You don't HAVE to read poor scholars for this nonsense. At that time "perhaps get back to 'us'" will resemble something less than a forgettable snarky redress that isn't worth the time it took to print it on the internet? I EXPECT you to think better and to not make lame excuses or stances over your disbelief. Frankly, you don't believe SIMPLY because you don't want to do so. It has nothing to do with these conversations and all to do with what you want, and what you don't want, despite the reality, rationality, or weight of such said. As I said earlier, I don't have much I can add. This is all just becoming a platform for me to say 'you are emoting' and 'prognosticating' without substantiations. It STILL looks like excuse making rather than honest assessment and valuations.

 

[iouae]

What you are saying, is that you reject what God's Word plainly says.

HIS Word tells us death entered our world because of one man's sin.

Iouae.... why did Jesus have to physically die?

6days, you have spoken much about science in the past. But until you learn what a fact is, you are forever going to be confused, as will be a multitude of Bible thumpers. A fact is something like "The earth is round/spherical", "Donald Trump is president of the USA" - things on which all except ignoramuses agree.

Your interpretation of the Bible you seamlessly place in the same category as facts. Thus you have lost the mechanism of sorting facts from fantasy - things in the real cosmos, like old light and the geologic column, you just wave away with a (misinterpreted) scripture such as "in 7 days God created the heavens and the earth" which you repeat like a mantra to ward off the facts.

Like the scripture about death entering the world through one man's sins which you enquired about, and which I have explained at length in the past, but you are teflon coated against real facts or even against the correct interpretation of scripture.

It's a fool's errand, but I have some time, so I will explain it again to some lurker who may derive some benefit from my explanation.

To set the background of how wrong you are...
1) You are claiming Adam, Eve, and every other creature never stepped on an ant, or ate anything except leaves - since any carnivore would introduce death. Do you really think before the fall, all animals walked carefully enough not to step on and kill another.
2) Some critters have short lifespans. So no adult fly, with a short lifespan, died in the time before the fall.
3) God would have had to reprogram every omnivore and carnivore, some of which are very specific in their diets after the fall. E.g. anteaters eat ants. Are you claiming that after the fall, God reprogrammed anteaters to change from eating whatever herb, to eating ants? There is no record of this in the Bible.
4) Adam and Eve did not die for nearly 900 years after their sins. Abel, for instance died long before them. So the first human death was not from the original sinners, but occurred to an innocent human victim.
5) The first recorded animal death was a lamb God killed to make Adam and Eve a coat to cover themselves. Thus one could make a case that death entered the world through God doing the killing (which is incorrect since animals were eating each other in food chains since the beginning of creation).
6) Sin did not enter the world through one man, but through one woman, Eve. Watch how your mind is programmed to negate this fact with excuses of a misogynistic kind.
7) Paul was using an analogy of trying to liken Adam to Christ - so Paul had to force the analogy to fit, making Adam to be the one who brought sin into the world so Christ could be the one to take it out. Paul's bad.

Now to clarify what Paul was trying to say...
Through one woman (Eve) and one weak man (Adam) sin entered the HUMAN condition, and that sin condemned them to physical death because God cut all humanity off from the Tree of Life, which we have to nibble on to live forever. There has been no access to that Tree of Life till Christ came along. Now we eat of Him and His body (the bread and the wine) and we have communion with His eternal life.

 

[Stripe]

Fact: The Bible says "six days."
Fact: The Bible says "the whole Earth."

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[6days]

A fact is something like....

Fact: The Bible says "six days."
Fact: The Bible says "the whole Earth"

...things in the real cosmos, like old light and the geologic column

The speed of light, fossil record etc are facts.

Iouae.... It does not go unnoticed that you are unable to answer why Christ had to physically die. Your source of ultimate truth seems to be secular opinions about our origins, which contradict Scripture. Your compromise results in foolish false arguments, revealing your lack of understanding of what the Bible really says... straw man arguments.
Examples:
iouaescripture such as "in 7 days God created the heavens and the earth"

Scripture "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

iouaeYou are claiming Adam, Eve, and every other creature never stepped on an ant, or ate anything except leaves
ReplyYou might want to learn what your 'opponent's and scripture really say instead of fabricating.

iouaeSo no adult fly, with a short lifespan, died in the time before the fall.
ReplyYou might want to learn what your 'opponent's and scripture really say instead of fabricating.

iouaeGod would have had to reprogram every omnivore and carnivore, some of which are very specific in their diets after the fall.
Reply You should try learn what God's Word says.... and learn some science (mutations / adaptation)

iouaeAdam and Eve did not die for nearly 900 years after their sins. Abel, for instance died long before them. So the first human death was not from the original sinners, but occurred to an innocent human victim.
Reply You don't know / understand what the scripture says, but you sure like to argue against it anyway.

iouaeThe first recorded animal death was a lamb God killed
ReplyActually, scripture does not say what type of animal it was.

iouaeThus one could make a case that death entered the world through God doing the killing
ScriptureWhen Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.Rom. 5:12

iouaesince animals were eating each other in food chains since the beginning of creation
ScriptureGod said "And I have given every green plant as food for all the wild animals..." Gen. 1:30

iouaeSin did not enter the world through one man...
Scripture When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death... Rom. 5:12

iouaePaul was using an analogy of trying to liken Adam to Christ - so Paul had to force the analogy to fit, making Adam to be the one who brought sin into the world so Christ could be the one to take it out. Paul's bad.
ReplyYou rejection of scripture in favor of secular opinions was also noted above.

iouae Now we eat of Him and His body (the bread and the wine) and we have communion with His eternal life.
ReplyYou rejection of scripture in favor of secular opinions was also noted above.

 

[iouae]

Fact: The Bible says "six days."
Fact: The Bible says "the whole Earth"

As big a fan as I am of sola scriptura, and the infallibility of the Bible, your INTERPRETATIONS of what it says are not fact, only your interpretations.

So until you learn the difference between facts on the ground, and fantasy in your head, including your INTERPRETATION of what you think happened in 6 days, we have very little common ground. And since you and Stripe are so confused over what a fact is versus an interpretation of the Bible, it is little wonder we have so little in common, and no wonder you are a space cadet when it comes to scripture. You have no means of comparing what you believe with something utterly truthful viz. the facts on the ground.

To use an analogy, a wife walks in on her husband naked in bed with another woman. The husband pleads his innocence saying this is not what it looks like. He asks her if she is going to believe him or believe her eyes. In your case you choose not to believe your eyes, and the facts on the ground.

 

[JudgeRightly]

As big a fan as I am of sola scriptura, and the infallibility of the Bible, your INTERPRETATIONS of what it says are not fact, only your interpretations.

So until you learn the difference between facts on the ground, and fantasy in your head, including your INTERPRETATION of what you think happened in 6 days, we have very little common ground. And since you and Stripe are so confused over what a fact is versus an interpretation of the Bible, it is little wonder we have so little in common, and no wonder you are a space cadet when it comes to scripture. You have no means of comparing what you believe with something utterly truthful viz. the facts on the ground.

To use an analogy, a wife walks in on her husband naked in bed with another woman. The husband pleads his innocence saying this is not what it looks like. He asks her if she is going to believe him or believe her eyes. In your case you choose not to believe your eyes, and the facts on the ground.

My eyes tell me that this is what Scripture says:

For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. - Exodus 20:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:11&version=NKJV

And my eyes also tell me that this is also what Scripture says that Jesus said:

For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” - John 5:46-47 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John5:46-47&version=NKJV

So who should I believe, iouae? You? or Moses, John, and Jesus?

 

[JudgeRightly]

As big a fan as I am of sola scriptura, and the infallibility of the Bible, your INTERPRETATIONS of what it says are not fact, only your interpretations.

So until you learn the difference between facts on the ground, and fantasy in your head, including your INTERPRETATION of what you think happened in 6 days, we have very little common ground. And since you and Stripe are so confused over what a fact is versus an interpretation of the Bible, it is little wonder we have so little in common, and no wonder you are a space cadet when it comes to scripture. You have no means of comparing what you believe with something utterly truthful viz. the facts on the ground.

To use an analogy, a wife walks in on her husband naked in bed with another woman. The husband pleads his innocence saying this is not what it looks like. He asks her if she is going to believe him or believe her eyes. In your case you choose not to believe your eyes, and the facts on the ground.

To use your analogy, you're the man in the bed with the woman other than his wife, saying "it's not what it looks like."

It's pretty clear that Jesus meant that what Moses said is true. And if you reject what Jesus said, then it's no wonder you've rejected the plain reading of scripture in favor of a lie, as Paul says in Romans:

who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. - Romans 1:25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans1:25&version=NKJV

 

[iouae]

To use your analogy, you're the man in the bed with the woman other than his wife, saying "it's not what it looks like."

It's pretty clear that Jesus meant that what Moses said is true. And if you reject what Jesus said, then it's no wonder you've rejected the plain reading of scripture in favor of a lie, as Paul says in Romans:

who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. - Romans 1:25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans1:25&version=NKJV

You can quote scripture till you are blue in the face and it is meaningless because you, like Stripe and 6days are out of touch with reality. Reality like old light and the geologic column. Both of these I CAN explain in my theology.

And on the 7th day God created something - the Sabbath. I keep the 7th day Sabbath, because God made something on each of the 7 days of creation, and I know what He made.

But y'all have rejected the 7th day and what God commanded Adam/mankind to observe. So the moment there is a verb or doing word in scripture, y'all's eyes go squint and you start running for the exit.

So while you claim to know what God did in creation week, your very action of not keeping the Sabbath which was made for man (not the Jews) demonstrates that you have no clue as to what happened on the six days of creation, prior to the 7th day of creation. If you are blind to God having created the Sabbath on the 7th day, you are just as blind to what God created on days 1-6.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You can quote scripture till you are blue in the face and it is meaningless because you, like Stripe and 6days are out of touch with reality. Reality like old light and the geologic column. Both of these I CAN explain in my theology.

And on the 7th day God created something - the Sabbath. I keep the 7th day Sabbath, because God made something on each of the 7 days of creation, and I know what He made.

But y'all have rejected the 7th day and what God commanded Adam/mankind to observe. So the moment there is a verb or doing word in scripture, y'all's eyes go squint and you start running for the exit.

So while you claim to know what God did in creation week, your very action of not keeping the Sabbath which was made for man (not the Jews) demonstrates that you have no clue as to what happened on the six days of creation, prior to the 7th day of creation. If you are blind to God having created the Sabbath on the 7th day, you are just as blind to what God created on days 1-6.

Calling scripture meaningless?

Now I know you're a fool.

 

[iouae]

Calling scripture meaningless?

When you quote them, yes.

 

[iouae]

JudgeWrongly - you and 6days are so deluded as to think your spin constitutes "facts".

You have no clue what God created on the 7th day. I suppose the elevator only goes up to the 6th floor.

And if you think there was no death before 6000 years ago, the whole geologic column notwithstanding, then you and 6days have your heads up a black hole.

 

[JudgeRightly]

JudgeWrongly - you and 6days are so deluded as to think your spin constitutes "facts".

So if that's the case, what makes your "spin" on scripture any more valid than our "spin"?

See, here's the problem with your assertion. You're saying we're putting "spin" on what scripture says.

Yet, neither I nor 6days have done anything but quote scripture and left it at that.

No exegesis, no eisegesis. Just quoting scripture.

Meaning, we take it at face value. We read what is written... and that's what it means.

Tell me, vowels. How are I and 6days putting "spin" on Exodus 20:11?

You have no clue what God created on the 7th day. I suppose the elevator only goes up to the 6th floor.

How in the world do you get that God created anything on the 7th day from this passage, which clearly and plainly says that He stopped working on the 7th day?

Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. - Genesis 2:1-3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis2:1-3&version=NKJV

Sounds like you're trying to "spin" this passage to mean something that it doesn't, which makes you a hypocrite.

And if you think there was no death before 6000 years ago,

Straw man, much?

God created the heavens, the earth, the seas, and all that is within them between 6 and 10 thousand years ago, most likely around 7 thousand years ago.

the whole geologic column notwithstanding,

The "geologic column" was laid down by the Global Flood of Noah's time.

then you and 6days have your heads up a black hole.

No need to be vulgar, vowels.

 

[way 2 go]

Fact: The Bible says "six days."
Fact: The Bible says "the whole Earth."

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Fact : soft tissue in dinosaur bones

http://kgov.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-original-biological-material

 

[Stripe]

Fact : soft tissue in dinosaur bones

http://kgov.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-original-biological-material

Don't start talking about evidence, Vowels is too busy venting.

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[iouae]

How in the world do you get that God created anything on the 7th day from this passage, which clearly and plainly says that He stopped working on the 7th day?

Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. - Genesis 2:1-3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis2:1-3&version=NKJV

The answer to your question is in the part of scripture which you read right over, and which I highlighted above.

 

[iouae]

Don't start talking about evidence, Vowels is too busy venting.

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Quoting scripture is not providing evidence. Evidence consists of facts. Someone's spin on scripture is not fact - and that applies equally to my spin on scripture.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The answer to your question is in the part of scripture which you read right over, and which I highlighted above.

Sanctify: set apart as or declare holy; consecrate.

Create: bring (something) into existence.

So you're saying that "sanctify" and "create" are synonyms?

You said God created something on the 7th day. If that is true, then what did He create?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Quoting scripture is not providing evidence.

Incorrect.

Quoting scripture as evidence of one's beliefs is something Jesus did when tempted by Satan.

Evidence consists of facts. Someone's spin on scripture is not fact - and that applies equally to my spin on scripture.

Then stop trying to spin scripture to make it evidence for your beliefs. Just read it and believe what it says.

FACT: the Bible says God created the earth in 6 days, and rested on the 7th.

FACT: The Bible says that Jesus affirmed Moses' writings.

FACT: Jesus has more authority on what the Bible teaches than you do.

FACT: Scripture itself is evidence God created in 6 days.

FACT: You're a hypocrite and a fool.