It's because he rejects absolutes. He must think that only the Sith deal in absolutes... so Christians must be the Sith... HAHAHAH!
Isn't it reasonable to doubt Young Earth Creationism?
- Thread starter Vulcan Logician
- Start date
iouae
Well-known member
JudgeRightly, you are a veritable cornucopia of theories I have never heard a peep about.
Now you claim God intended Christ return within 10 years of His first coming.
But the FACTS on the ground are that Christ has not returned for 2000 years between comings.
Thus there (Bible fact) IS a 2000 year gap between Mal 3:1 and Mal 3:2.
I don't have to read Bob Enyard to know already that he has lost The Plot.
I think you recommended the hydroplate video, which was a couple of hours of unendurable pseudo-science.
Sorry, as Desiderata stated "No doubt the universe is unfolding, as it should" and exactly as God planned it from the start - including that there be a 2000 year gap between 1st and 2nd comings.
Good, glad I'm keeping you on your toes.
Um, that's not my claim, that's what the Bible claims.
Well, yeah, there is now. But saying something was predicted after the fact when originally there was nothing else intended by the text is called "SPIN," iouae...
Again, there is now. But there wasn't originally.
It's Enyart. With a "t." Enyart.
Shows how much you know, Mr. Spin the Bible.
I assert that Enyart has a better understanding of the Bible than you do.
Calling it pseudo-science doesn't make it pseudo-science. Considering that it's the only theory in existence on how the Flood occurred which doesn't rely on ANY miracles, I'd say you should still watch the video, because it provides a well thought out alternate explanation for pretty much everything you claim is evidence for an old earth, and one that fits everything together in context of scripture, without ignoring physics or other sciences.
Which gets into Calvinism, which has been discussed many times on this forum, so I won't get into it here. All I'll say, is that both God and man are free agents, and that the future is not settled, based on what scripture says, not what some (relatively) recent poem says, and that Jeremiah 18 has more relevance to Malachi 3:1-3 than does that poem.
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Typical Darwinist. Talk evidence, and all they have is mockery. It's either that or they run for the hills.
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iouae
Well-known member
The hydroplate guy disses plate tectonics, one of the most well evidenced and FACTUAL current day geology. The Americas and Africa ARE (FACT) moving apart at the speed a fingernail grows, due to upwelling of magma in the midatlantic ridge pushing the two continents apart.
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What do you mean by 'the primacy of logic'?
It looks to me like you don't really have a logical argument.
Stuart
....
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If you are not a creationist, then yes, of course the things we now call the laws of physics were in effect before we discovered those principles and called them laws. Of course we have also discovered that Newton was not in a position to account for either quantum principles or relativity, so the laws have evolved.
If you are a creationist, then the answer is different: How could you know? You weren't there to see.
Stuart
When you can't even spell your opponent's theory right...
No, they utterly destroy the theory.
Saying something is factual doesn't make it so, vowels.
They explain why it doesn't work in the video, or did you not watch the video all the way through?
Ok, so I did the math. IF (and that's a big "if") the average rate of separation of the Americas and Africa has remained constant for the last 200 million years (which is, according to secular theories, how long ago "Pangea" broke up), then at the rate of 3.47 mm/year (the average rate of fingernail growth), then the continents should be about 157399.537 miles apart. Now, I don't know how big you think the earth is, but that's 6 times the circumference of the earth...
So already you're wrong...
In addition to that, if you were to cut out Africa and South America (or, at least where their continental shelves drop off), and try to piece them together, they wouldn't fit, and it wouldn't even be close....
There's more evidence against plate tectonics in the video, but it's just "pseudo-science" to you, so why bother...
iouae
Well-known member
I spelt it right but my spelling checker had never heard of this fringe science, and corrected me.
I did watch it through at double speed and fast-forwarding when he went slower than the continents are spreading.
I never said the rate of spreading was constant.
So are you conceding that the continents (FACT) ARE spreading?
A non-home schooled 5-year old can see that the continents fit together like a jig-saw puzzle.
Precisely my attitude.
3.47mm per year x 200,000,000 years = 694,000,000mm, or 694 kilometres.
The growth rate of a fingernail is about 3mm per month, which is 36mm per year.
That would give 36mm per year x 200,000,000 years = 7,200,000,000 mm, or 7200 kilometres.
The distances between points in South America and Africa that used to be connected are now about 5000 kilometres apart.
Stuart
The question applies equally to both creationist and Big Bang-er, as in either theory, there was a point before which humans did not exist.
Good, Let me stop you there.
So if the laws already existed (even though "undefined by humans"), wouldn't that include the laws of logic?
Question, Stuu:
Can laws be created (and by that I mean arbitrarily brought into existence)? or are they only discovered?
Has 1+1 ever equalled 3? or 0? or any other number other than 2? (I just need a "yes, it has" or "no, 1+1 has always equalled 2.")
So if you weren't around to see a murder happen, how could you know it happened? You weren't there to see it happen.
See, I have a way out of this question. I have three Witnesses, the Creator God who created the Universe, to say what He did, in addition to the physical and even the non-physical evidence of the universe to back His account up.
You, on the other hand, cannot answer the question, "How could you know," because other than theories which can only attempt to explain physical and non-physical evidence, you have no eyewitness (let alone two or three) accounts to be supported with such theories and evidence.
So, to reiterate my questions from earlier in this post:
Can laws be created (and by that I mean arbitrarily brought into existence)? or are they only discovered? ("Yes, they can be created" or "No, they can only be discovered")
Has 1+1 ever equalled any other number other than 2? ("Yes, it has equalled something other than 2 in the past" or "no, 1+1 has always equalled 2.")
Good, Let me stop you there.
So if the laws already existed (even though "undefined by humans"), wouldn't that include the laws of logic?
Question, Stuu:
Can laws be created (and by that I mean arbitrarily brought into existence)? or are they only discovered?
Has 1+1 ever equalled 3? or 0? or any other number other than 2? (I just need a "yes, it has" or "no, 1+1 has always equalled 2.")
So if you weren't around to see a murder happen, how could you know it happened? You weren't there to see it happen.
See, I have a way out of this question. I have three Witnesses, the Creator God who created the Universe, to say what He did, in addition to the physical and even the non-physical evidence of the universe to back His account up.
You, on the other hand, cannot answer the question, "How could you know," because other than theories which can only attempt to explain physical and non-physical evidence, you have no eyewitness (let alone two or three) accounts to be supported with such theories and evidence.
So, to reiterate my questions from earlier in this post:
Can laws be created (and by that I mean arbitrarily brought into existence)? or are they only discovered? ("Yes, they can be created" or "No, they can only be discovered")
Has 1+1 ever equalled any other number other than 2? ("Yes, it has equalled something other than 2 in the past" or "no, 1+1 has always equalled 2.")
Creationism is not a theory. It is an hypothesis only because it is not supported by any unambiguous evidence.
No. Physical laws are not theories, they are predictive statements of what appears to happen in a given situation. The relationship with logic is that an observation (maybe one of the laws) is interpreted in terms of explanations and becomes a theory. A theory is evidence interpreted logically. Of course theories are always open to changing due to new evidence, and also due to the possibility that conventional logic does not apply, for example in quantum mechanics.
Laws are just descriptions of the apparent principles of the operation of the universe. It might be more accurate to say that the principles of the operation of the universe get called laws when they are discovered, but you could still say a particular law was in operation since the beginning of the universe.
It has been a very serious and difficult problem in mathematics to justify 1+1=2. For more details see the work of Bertrand Russell in the early 20th Century. It might sound ridiculous to say it, but the answer to your question is quite complex.
In criminal cases physical forensic evidence is often more reliable than eyewitness evidence. That is especially true if the supposed witness cannot even be produced for cross-examination.
Stuart
Actually, we're both wrong... see the correct distance below.
So, average growth rate of a fingernail (according to https://www.healthline.com/health/beauty-skin-care/how-fast-do-nails-grow) is about 3.47mm/month (my math above was wrong in that I misread it as 3.47 mm/day).
200,000,000 years since "Pangea" broke apart.
3.47mm/month * 12 months/year = 41.64mm/year
41.64mm/year * 1m/1000mm = 0.04164mm/year
0.04164mm/year * 1km/1000mm = 0.000046km/year
0.00004164km/year * 200,000,000 years = 8,328km
Measured the rough distance between the two points where it looks like Africa and South America would meet to form one supercontinent, and here's the distance in miles:
That's about 4706 km.
8,328km - 4706km = 3622km off of what it should be.
That's a ~43.49% of error. Don't you think that's a bit far off?
So, average growth rate of a fingernail (according to https://www.healthline.com/health/beauty-skin-care/how-fast-do-nails-grow) is about 3.47mm/month (my math above was wrong in that I misread it as 3.47 mm/day).
200,000,000 years since "Pangea" broke apart.
3.47mm/month * 12 months/year = 41.64mm/year
41.64mm/year * 1m/1000mm = 0.04164mm/year
0.04164mm/year * 1km/1000mm = 0.000046km/year
0.00004164km/year * 200,000,000 years = 8,328km
Measured the rough distance between the two points where it looks like Africa and South America would meet to form one supercontinent, and here's the distance in miles:
That's about 4706 km.
8,328km - 4706km = 3622km off of what it should be.
That's a ~43.49% of error. Don't you think that's a bit far off?
6days
New member
You can also deny the virgin birth, the global flood etc.. But, denial of what God says, does not change what He actually tells us.iouae said:
The gap 'theory' requires scriptural gymnastics and the belief that Jews and Christians up until a few hundred years ago didn't understand the Gospel. The gap theory is false, and even heretical for a number of reasons. To start, the verse numbers are an artificial separation, not in the Hebrew.
1. The gap theory is heretical because it believes God declared everything very good, (Gen. 1:31) although Satan was already god of this world.
2. The gap theory is heretical in that it denies suffering and death entered our world only after first Adam sinned. (Gap'ists believe humanlike, soul-less creatures suffered for no reason)
3. Gap theory is false because it imposes their belief upon scripture...that the earth became waste and void. (They believe every major translation team is in error).
4. Gap theorists are wrong in that they often impose artificial distinctions on words to try make God's Word fit their own belief system. (Ex. They often make a distinction between the words 'create and 'made in Genesis 1 although the words are used interchangeably throughout Scripture.
5. The gap theory is false because God says He made the earth and everything in It, in six days.
It is just you that is wrong, not me. Nice map, though.Actually, we're both wrong... see the correct distance below.
So, average growth rate of a fingernail (according to https://www.healthline.com/health/beauty-skin-care/how-fast-do-nails-grow) is about 3.47mm/month (my math above was wrong in that I misread it as 3.47 mm/day).
200,000,000 years since "Pangea" broke apart.
3.47mm/month * 12 months/year = 41.64mm/year
41.64mm/year * 1m/1000mm = 0.04164mm/year
0.04164mm/year * 1km/1000mm = 0.000046km/year
0.00004164km/year * 200,000,000 years = 8,328km
Measured the rough distance between the two points where it looks like Africa and South America would meet to form one supercontinent, and here's the distance in miles:
That's about 4706 km.
8,328km - 4706km = 3622km off of what it should be.
That's a ~43.49% of error. Don't you think that's a bit far off?
It is not a law of the universe that rates of continental movement are tied to the rate of human fingernail growth. The two are within the same order of magnitude, which is sufficient for giving people some idea of how fast continental drift happens which, by the way, is due to the action of the mid-oceanic ridge shown on your map.
Stuart
#1 reason why I don't use autocorrect.
So, your answer is really, "No, I didn't watch it."
Then please provide the average rate and direction of continental drift for the past 200 million years.
My position (if you had actually watched the HPT video, you would know what I believe) is that the rate of continental drift was about 50-55 mph for a few hours. What we see today is the continental plates still in the process of settling.
Any 5-year old, homeschooled or not, will say they lok like they piece together like a puzzle. That doesn't mean that they do. There's a reason they don't, one which you would have known if you had actually watched the GF&HPT video.
You are apparently unable to recognize (rather obvious) dripping sarcasm.
1+1=2
-1 -1
1=1
1+1=2
2=2
That seems pretty simple to me...
mockSure, one witness isn't reliable. That's why (and this is in the Bible) two or three witnesses establish a matter.
Maybe you didn't notice, but I said "3 Witnesses" above, referring to God being triune.
Euthyphro's Dilemma comes to mind, and can only be accurately answered by the God of the Bible being triune (or to expand on that slightly, "three WHOs, one WHAT", as opposed to a human being, which is one WHO and one What)
Denial of reality tends to lead to people being unable to admit when they're wrong, even when they are shown to be so.
So could you provide an average direction and rate of drift for the continents over the past 200,000,000 years? (say, perhaps, within a 10% margin of error)
Please note, that I actually agree that the continents used to be one supercontinent, prior to Noah's flood. However, mine is slightly (overall) larger than the one given by the plate tectonics model.