Islamic Terrorists France: 12 dead, police gunned down

[Quincy]

Part of what being Muslim means is that you mustn't give a damn about what the people think of you as long as you have the correct knowledge of what God thinks about your actions. If having a good relationship with the non-Muslim community means sacrificing the values we stand for then we must not do it. If not then there's no harm.

So you care more about ideology than peace or the lives of innocent pranksters?

The values we stand for includes the intolerance of blasphemy. It should be silenced in the best way possible. If not we have failed the test and we fail to prevent corruption on earth. Full stop.

I don't think you have a right to talk about preventing corruption on Earth when you guys can't even weed out the corrupt, violent jihadists in your ranks.

The values you people hold dear is freedom of expression. Whatever that prevents the freedom of expression when it is for the good of the status quo should not be tolerated. People who are against freedom of complete expression should be silences. Full stop.

That's not true. Any freedom must be handled with responsibility. Some people don't but regardless, it's just an expression. Not worth taking a life over.

We want to prevent blasphemy. You'll want to prevent any attempts to limit free speech. In a democracy what succeeds is the values of the majority. For that it is evil in our eyes.

Well, for one most countries in the west use some form of a democratic republic as government but I digress. As I said, people who are toxic can be ignored and even boycotted. With that, they are silenced, there's no violence needed. I'm having a hard time believing that you actually don't want people who roast your sacred cow silenced by any means necessary. It sounds like you want control more than respect.

 

[Repentance]

Is it murder for the government to kill a blasphemer?

What if it was according to the law of God?

Leviticus 24:10-23 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Penalty for Blasphemy

10



Now the son of an Israelite woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel; and this Israelite woman’s son and a man of Israel fought each other in the camp.



11

And the Israelite woman’s son blasphemed the name of the LORD and cursed; and so they brought him to Moses. (His mother’s name was Shelomith the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan.)

they put him in custody, that the mind of the LORD might be shown to them.

And the LORD spoke to Moses,

13

“Take outside the camp



14

saying,

him who has cursed; then let all who heard him lay their hands on his head, and let all the congregation stone him.



15



“Then you shall speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin.



16

And whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall certainly stone him, the stranger as well as him who is born in the land. When he blasphemes the name of the LORD, he shall be put to death.



17



‘Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death.



18

kills an animal shall make it good, animal for animal.

‘If a man causes disfigurement of



19

his neighbor, as he has done, so shall it be done to him—

for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he has caused disfigurement of a man, so shall it

21

And whoever

be done to him.

kills an animal shall restore it; but whoever kills a man shall be put to



22

You shall have the same

death.

law for the stranger and for one from your own country; for I am the LORD your God.’”



23



Then Moses spoke to the children of Israel; and they took outside the camp him who had cursed, and stoned him with stones. So the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses.

 

[Repentance]

You don't have to approve of either ... you just need to make it clear that blasphemy is not an excuse for violence.

Firstly you must tear up the OT

 

[Rusha]

Firstly you must tear up the OT

Not happening ... because I don't need to *tear up* any book to maintain enough self control to not go around killing people because they insulted my beliefs.

Ridiculous.

 

[Nazaroo]

Firstly you must tear up the OT

Firstly I must burn the Koran, and post a video of it for you.

 

[Granite]

Firstly you must tear up the OT

I'm an atheist and don't want that to happen.

 

[Repentance]

So you care more about ideology than peace or the lives of innocent pranksters?

In this case these "innocent pranksters" were warned and threatened. I admire their courage though. They died for their desires.

I don't think you have a right to talk about preventing corruption on Earth when you guys can't even weed out the corrupt, violent jihadists in your ranks.

No we have the right. Some of the jihadists are the pure servants of God and the lions of Islam. But yeah most are just criminals and thugs hijacking the social and political goals of Islam for their own power and desires.

That's not true. Any freedom must be handled with responsibility. Some people don't but regardless, it's just an expression. Not worth taking a life over.

Yeah in this case yes. It did more harm than good. But it is only God who could pass judgements and give laws. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed completely for something that would not be considered evil in today's "free society".

Well, for one most countries in the west use some form of a democratic republic as government but I digress. As I said, people who are toxic can be ignored and even boycotted. With that, they are silenced, there's no violence needed. I'm having a hard time believing that you actually don't want people who roast your sacred cow silenced by any means necessary. It sounds like you want control more than respect.

Of course God has entrusted upon his people to establish his will on earth even though most of us dislike it. That's the test and purpose of life as nations.

 

[Granite]

In this case these "innocent pranksters" were warned and threatened.

By a pack of murderous maniacs.

 

[Rusha]

By a pack of murderous maniacs.

Who he is making excuses for ...

 

[Repentance]

Not happening ... because I don't need to *tear up* any book to maintain enough self control to not go around killing people because they insulted my beliefs.

Ridiculous.

I'm assuming you are a Christians who looks at the Bible as the infallible word of God.

You wanted me to agree with you that blasphemy should not be any excuse for violence.

But this contradicts the "mind of God" in the OT. He clearly ordered the stoning of the blasphemer.

So you should tear up the OT before you agree with such an idea.

Firstly I must burn the Koran, and post a video of it for you.

At least read some of it before you do. At least the second chapter.

I'm an atheist and don't want that to happen.

Me too

Not happening ... because I don't need to *tear up* any book to maintain enough self control to not go around killing people because they insulted my beliefs.

Ridiculous.

 

[Doom]

You wanted me to agree with you that blasphemy should not be any excuse for violence.

It's impossible to blaspheme Allah

 

[Rusha]

I'm assuming you are a Christians who looks at the Bible as the infallible word of God.

Your assumption is incorrect. I am merely a woman who values freedom of speech, expression, religion and the right to reject and verbally disagree with religion.

You wanted me to agree with you that blasphemy should not be any excuse for violence.

But this contradicts the "mind of God" in the OT. He clearly ordered the stoning of the blasphemer.

I don't want or need for you to agree with me. I am simply stating that such a reaction (from terrorists) comes from a demented mind.

So you should tear up the OT before you agree with such an idea.

Unlike you, I don't need to tear up or shut down programs or books that I *disagree* with. I simply don't read them.

 

[Repentance]

It's impossible to blaspheme Allah

Allah = Yahweh = the only living being.

Allah is the God. Ask any Coptic Christian. The Prophet used it to refer to the God of Abraham and the Quran makes that exceptionally clear. Allah is not friction. He is the Father in Heaven.

 

[Doom]

Allah = Yahweh = the only living being.

Now that's blaspheme, not of Allah Tabul Shiite, but of Yahweh.

 

[Selaphiel]

Not all Muslims deny the crucifixion. The death of Jesus is irrelavant and had no significance in the OT and the Bible if not for St.Paul. We deny that God needs a bloody sacrifice to purify us of sins. What type of God is that? Fortunately our God is Merciful. He forgives all sins though repentance. Only a devil would need blood to be spilt to save sins. I'm telling you.

Where did I say anything about spilling blood to appease God? I do not believe that. The ancient view is that Christ saved mankind by assuming human nature and conquering death, which held mankind in bondage, not to appease and angry God. It is the devil that holds man in bondage, not the wrath of God. God doesnt need anything. According to Christian theology, God assumes human nature to heal mankind, not to appease his own wrath. The death of Christ is not irrelevant, it shows that God is really above us, so above us that he can act as our servant in love and even enter into sheol for us.

You can't really dismiss St.Paul. It is not like he is some late entrance into the New Testament. His writings are the earliest writings of the NT.

 

[kmoney]

My first thoughts on this were if his faith, God and prophet are so weak and vulnerable that they require murder as a defense to satire they belong in the dust bin of history and the response of the people of France to this barbaric, brutal and thuggish act deserves an echo throughout civilized countries everywhere. If Islam condones it then Islam must be condemned, repudiated and rejected.

Having said that, I began to look and note that only ISIS is praising these cowards and that Saudi Arabia has denounced the acts as have most Islamic states and The Arab League and Egypt’s al-Azhar university, the foremost theological institution in the Sunni Muslim world.

The Union des Organisations Islamiques de France, rejected the act and Tariq Ramadan, a prominent Muslim thinker and writer said of the killings, " Charlie Hebdo: NO! NO! NO! Contrary to what was apparently said by the killers in the bombing of Charlie Hebdo's headquarters, it is not the Prophet who was avenged, it is our religion, our values and Islamic principles that have been betrayed and tainted .

My condemnation is absolute and my anger is profound (healthy and a thousand times justified) against this horror!!!."

Dalil Boubakeur, imam of the mosque of Paris, said, "We strongly condemn these kind of acts and we expect the authorities to take the most appropriate measures. Our community is stunned by what just happened. It’s a whole section of our democracy that is seriously affected. This is a deafening declaration of war. Times have changed, and we are now entering a new era of confrontation."

The Union of Islamic Organizations of France declared: “The UOIF condemns in the strongest terms this criminal attack, and these horrible murders. The UOIF expresses its deepest condolences to the families and all the employees of Charlie Weekly.”

There's been an outpouring of outrage and dismay from Muslims world wide. Twitter has been bombarded by numerous responses to the killings, as noted and sampled by The Spectator in an article entitled Not In Our Name. So our Islamic friend, if that's what he actually is, isn't representative of a great many intellectual leaders and ordinary practitioners of Islam, thank God.

Thanks for posting that. It's interesting, and heartening, to see widespread condemnation from Muslims.



Bill Maher thinks that hundreds of millions of Muslims support the murders. :think:

 

[kmoney]

I have a problem only with your first paragraph. Your argument is weak - these types of arguments are similar to the argument mentioned in the Quran - "If God wants the hungry to be fed then why not do it Himself?". There is a clear and obvious reason.

Of course these types actions must be condemned for the harm they bring. But you and I must be sure as to why Muslims condemn these kinds of atrocities. There are a lot of other reasons that does not include freedom of expression (which is btw a farce - the same magazine had to face issues of anti-semitism in court, and in most of Europe holocaust denial is a crime). What about the voluntary wearing of the burka - France banned it. Its hypocrisy to say the least. Freedom of expression is just an abstract idea - it can never be achieved in reality. Edward Snowden?

If the only reason, or the primary reason, that Muslims condemned these killings was freedom of expression then I'd be very disappointed!

 

[Doom]

Thanks for posting that. It's interesting, and heartening, to see widespread condemnation from Muslims.

Taqiyya

Bill Maher thinks that hundreds of millions of Muslims support the murders.

Over a billion is more accurate.

 

[rexlunae]

Thanks for posting that. It's interesting, and heartening, to see widespread condemnation from Muslims.



Bill Maher thinks that hundreds of millions of Muslims support the murders. :think:

Well, if the chart someone else posted of Muslim's attitude about the death penalty for blasphemy is correct, Maher would have to be at least in the correct ballpark. There are rather a lot of Muslims in the world.

 

[rocketman]

Bill Maher thinks that hundreds of millions of Muslims support the murders. :think:

Bill Maher is a booger pickin moron but, that is a different subject for another thread. lain:

I read something recently that pretty much summed it up well, went something like this:

The only difference between Radical Muslims & Moderate Muslims is that Radical Muslims want to cut your head off, while Moderate Muslims want to see the Radicals cut your head off.