Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[Cross Reference]

So you say it is willful ignorance to believe Bible facts.

You willful mis-construing of them is wha I have a problem; your opinion offered up you as being fact.

We can expect that from one who follows the teachings of men.

"Put up or shut up": Show where I misconstrue scripture to make it fit my desires?

If you have nothing credible to say then you should just be quite.

LA

Practice what you preach.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

There is only day and night in the age.

It is clear that the second death occurs AFTER the second living.

You can not face that fact.

LA

You willful mis-construing of them is wha I have a problem; your opinion offered up you as being fact.



"Put up or shut up": Show where I misconstrue scripture to make it fit my desires?




Practice what you preach.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There you go.

Men live again and are judged before many of them enter the second death.

One can not experience their second death if they did not die the first death, and they must be raised from their first death to live again in order that they can die again in the second death.

LA

 

[way 2 go]

Jesus also has parables involving graft and polygamy. Murder too. Are those OK just because they are mentioned in Parable? Shall I marry ten virgins at one time?

Jesus never lied .

Luk 16:7**Then he said to another, 'And how much do you owe?' He said, 'A hundred measures of wheat.' He said to him, 'Take your bill, and write eighty.'

debt exist
measures of wheat exist


Mat 25:1**Then shall the kingdom of Heaven be likened to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

virgins ,lamps ,and bridegrooms exist.


Mat 21:35**"But the farmers grabbed the servants and beat one. They killed another one and then stoned to death a third servant.

farmers and servants exist.
beatings and murder exist.



the consciousness departed exist
the fire for the unrepentant to stand in exist

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
...
Luk 16:26**And besides all this, there is a great chasm fixed between you and us; so that they desiring to pass from here to you cannot, nor can they pass over to us from there.

 

[Rosenritter]

Jesus never lied .

Luk 16:7**Then he said to another, 'And how much do you owe?' He said, 'A hundred measures of wheat.' He said to him, 'Take your bill, and write eighty.'

debt exist
measures of wheat exist


Mat 25:1**Then shall the kingdom of Heaven be likened to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

virgins ,lamps ,and bridegrooms exist.


Mat 21:35**"But the farmers grabbed the servants and beat one. They killed another one and then stoned to death a third servant.

farmers and servants exist.
beatings and murder exist.



the consciousness departed exist
the fire for the unrepentant to stand in exist

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
...
Luk 16:26**And besides all this, there is a great chasm fixed between you and us; so that they desiring to pass from here to you cannot, nor can they pass over to us from there.

Conscious departed do not exist, that is your error. Says so half a dozen different times in scripture before that point. In fact it even says they do not exist, that they have no more being.

Way 2 Go, do you enjoy looking like the thread idiot?

 

[Rosenritter]

The Lord never used mythology to show truth in a parable.

The beast and false prophet are in the lake of fire at the beginning of the thousand years.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.(age lasting)


What you miss is that the Lord sends certain men into punishment at His return, which is the thousand years before the last judgment of all other mankind.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


The casting into the lake of fire is at the end of the thousand years.

and look what is thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death--

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Do you get it now?

Is not scripture enough?

LA

Your reasoning is circular and disproved. Hell fire as referenced by Jesus uses one Greek word in particular. In the parable he used Hades, the name of the Greek mythological after world. If he was speaking of hell fire he would have used gehenna, not Hades.

There are at least two other parables in scripture where trees talk. Talking and sentient trees are also part of pagan belief systems. Curious, will you say that those are "lies" or real events?

 

[Rosenritter]

The story explains judgment.



And when do you believe your judgment will come or has it already?



You used the word "setting". Interesting.

<remarkable understanding> And what need would Jesus have for quoting the Greeks or speaking of what the Greeks believed, who were always looking for their god? What do you believe they knew that Jesus didn't?

Who has bewitched you into believing Greek mythology should take precedence over the words of Jesus when He states a fact about life and death or for that matter, anything He says? You relish the opportunity to come against Him..

The Greek Hades is used for the very reason that it is pagan and not Jewish. That is why the rich Jew finds himself in their Hades.

It is the counterpoint of where the poor gentile finds himself in the Jewish symbolic myth of Abraham's reward.

If you know the parable the symbols couldn't be more perfect.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Your reasoning is circular and disproved. Hell fire as referenced by Jesus uses one Greek word in particular. In the parable he used Hades, the name of the Greek mythological after world. If he was speaking of hell fire he would have used gehenna, not Hades.

There are at least two other parables in scripture where trees talk. Talking and sentient trees are also part of pagan belief systems. Curious, will you say that those are "lies" or real events?

Truth comes before any lie.

Jesus did not use hell because the wicked are in the graves before they are raised and judged and enter into punishment (which varies) before they are consumed in the lake of fire.

LA

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Truth comes before any lie.

Jesus did not use hell because the wicked are in the graves before they are raised and judged and enter into punishment (which varies) before they are consumed in the lake of fire.

LA

You're as ignorant as they come.

 

[way 2 go]

Conscious departed do not exist, that is your error. Says so half a dozen different times in scripture before that point. In fact it even says they do not exist, that they have no more being.

Way 2 Go, do you enjoy looking like the thread idiot?

which verse did Jesus lie ?

the consciousness departed exist
the fire for the unrepentant to stand in exist

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
...
Luk 16:26**And besides all this, there is a great chasm fixed between you and us; so that they desiring to pass from here to you cannot, nor can they pass over to us from there.


I have the truth on my side so no need
to call you any names but you go ahead if it
makes you feel good.
:carryon:

 

[Rosenritter]

which verse did Jesus lie ?

the consciousness departed exist
the fire for the unrepentant to stand in exist

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
...
Luk 16:26**And besides all this, there is a great chasm fixed between you and us; so that they desiring to pass from here to you cannot, nor can they pass over to us from there.


I have the truth on my side so no need
to call you any names but you go ahead if it
makes you feel good.
:carryon:

No, seriously, you are the most moronic debater I have ever met. You keep using the same failed argument over and over again. You will not answer questions. Etc. If you acted that dumb real life you would be dead or under assisted care. If the Theology Online app would let me you would have earned the award of being the first to get the "Ignore" signification.

 

[way 2 go]

No, seriously, you are the most moronic debater I have ever met. You keep using the same failed argument over and over again. You will not answer questions. Etc. If you acted that dumb real life you would be dead or under assisted care. If the Theology Online app would let me you would have earned the award of being the first to get the "Ignore" signification.

Rosenritter you have had zero proof that
Jesus lied in Luke 16:19-31


which verse did Jesus lie ?

Jesus did not lie in Luke 16:19-31

the truth that Jesus revealed that Rosenritter denies
the consciousness departed exist
the fire for the unrepentant to stand in exist
the unrepentant are not burning up

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
...
Luk 16:26**And besides all this, there is a great chasm fixed between you and us; so that they desiring to pass from here to you cannot, nor can they pass over to us from there.

Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) biblical or not?

yes.
Conscious Torment is shown to be true.

but unbelievers will remain unbelievers

Luk 16:30**And he said, No, father Abraham, but if one should go to them from the dead, they would repent.
Luk 16:31**And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead.

 

[Rosenritter]

Rosenritter you have had zero proof that
Jesus lied in Luke 16:19-31


which verse did Jesus lie ?

Jesus did not lie in Luke 16:19-31

the truth that Jesus revealed that Rosenritter denies
the consciousness departed exist
the fire for the unrepentant to stand in exist
the unrepentant are not burning up

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
...
Luk 16:26**And besides all this, there is a great chasm fixed between you and us; so that they desiring to pass from here to you cannot, nor can they pass over to us from there.


yes.
Conscious Torment is shown to be true.

but unbelievers will remain unbelievers

Luk 16:30**And he said, No, father Abraham, but if one should go to them from the dead, they would repent.
Luk 16:31**And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead.

Straw man argument.

 

[Ktoyou]

:nono:
It is plain childish to expect moderators to break up two adults other an emotional squabble. Debate with your intellect, not your temperament, or cease.

 

[rstrats]

way 2 go,
re: "Conscious Torment is shown to be true."

Perhaps, but nowhere is it shown to last with no end ( with the possible exception of the devil).

 

[Rosenritter]

way 2 go,
re: "Conscious Torment is shown to be true."

Perhaps, but nowhere is it shown to last with no end ( with the possible exceiption of the devil).

Sorry, Way 2 Go is unable to come to the phone right now. I have been tasked to answer for him.The following does not represent the opinions of John, Jesus, Paul, or Rosenritter. Please read with advisement.

You said Jesus lied. Show me where Jesus lied:

Luk 16:22-28 KJV
(22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
(23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
(27) Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
(28) For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.


eternal conscious torment is true.
we wouldn't love our God if he didn't torment people for eternity

the truth is you and Rosenritter deny eternal conscious torment
our souls never die
you hae zero proof

I have truth on my sie

 

[Cross Reference]

Straw man argument.

< typical all nonsense reply >

 

[Rosenritter]

< typical all nonsense reply >

Straw man

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the logical fallacy. For other uses, see Straw man (disambiguation).
"Man of straw" redirects here. For the novel by Heinrich Mann, see Der Untertan.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.^[1]

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and then refuting that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.^[2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

* * *

So when Way 2 Go creates a false argument and assigns it to me or anyone else and then attacks that argument, that is an example of a "straw man" argument.

When I respond to a post the same way Way 2 Go would, and the post is 98% the same words he has spammed over and over in other posts, and invoke the quality of humor, that qualifies as SATIRE. The point being that ANYONE can respond as Way 2 Go, it doesn't take intelligence, a bot could do it. Just repeat the same Straw Man argument over and over.

Satire

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government or society itself, into improvement.^[1] Although satire is usually meant to be humorous, its greater purpose is often constructive social criticism, using wit to draw attention to both particular and wider issues in society.

A feature of satire is strong irony or sarcasm—"in satire, irony is militant"^[2]—but parody, burlesque, exaggeration,^[3] juxtaposition, comparison, analogy, and double entendre are all frequently used in satirical speech and writing. This "militant" irony or sarcasm often professes to approve of (or at least accept as natural) the very things the satirist wishes to attack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire

 

[way 2 go]

Sorry, Way 2 Go is unable to come to the phone right now. I have been tasked to answer for him.The following does not represent the opinions of John, Jesus, Paul, or Rosenritter. Please read with advisement.

correct not Jesus opinion , Jesus revealed truth.

the consciousness departed exist
the fire for the unrepentant to stand in exists
the unrepentant are not burning up

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
...
Luk 16:26**And besides all this, there is a great chasm fixed between you and us; so that they desiring to pass from here to you cannot, nor can they pass over to us from there.

Straw man


The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and then refuting that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.

So when Way 2 Go creates a false argument and assigns it to me or anyone else and then attacks that argument, that is an example of a "straw man" argument.

not a straw man ,
Eternal Conscious Torment deniers
deny existence after death ,proven false
and consciousness of the departed also proven false

Conscious torment deniers also
deny that someone could stand in the
fire and keep existing , proven false.

have the Eternal Conscious Torment deniers
conceded these points ? :nono:

have the Eternal Conscious Torment deniers
shown any of the verses I have quoted
over and over and over and over and over
to be a lie ? :nono:

 

[Rosenritter]

correct not Jesus opinion , Jesus revealed truth.

the consciousness departed exist
the fire for the unrepentant to stand in exists
the unrepentant are not burning up

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
...
Luk 16:26**And besides all this, there is a great chasm fixed between you and us; so that they desiring to pass from here to you cannot, nor can they pass over to us from there.




not a straw man ,
Eternal Conscious Torment deniers
deny existence after death ,proven false
and consciousness of the departed also proven false

Conscious torment deniers also
deny that someone could stand in the
fire and keep existing , proven false.

have the Eternal Conscious Torment deniers
conceded these points ? :nono:

have the Eternal Conscious Torment deniers
shown any of the verses I have quoted
over and over and over and over and over
to be a lie ? :nono:

Actually the whole scripture has shown you to lie about this, including Jesus himself. You keep sloughing without shame.

 

[rstrats]

The topic question asks: "Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?" So far no one has shown any scripture that says that anyone - with the possible exception of the devil as the KJV has it - will be given eternal life and tormented for eternity.