Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
lifeisgood
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I guess Adam and Eve didn't take God at His word for there is no mention of them in the 'faith hall of fame' list of Hebrews 11:4-38 or anywhere else in the Bible, that I can find. Had Adam repented, the Bible would not speak of him negatively every single time it mentions him.
lifeisgood
New member
I guess you're not taking the time to really read answers are you.
lifeisgood
New member
Nah! You only agree with them when they agree with you. The moment they say something you are not in agreement with, the disagreement start.
I agree with someone when they agree with what the Bible says!
When they disagree with the Bible, I disagree with them.
You never showed me any verse, written by John or anyone else, that says that God tortures people alive in hell forever when they die.
Do you want me to show you a verse that says that the wages of sin is death? I would be happy to!
So you don't believe John 3:16.
You are a liar.
I agree with the Bible, and I agree with Jesus, John, Paul and the Holy Spirit.
I disagree with you because you are a liar, and you do not know what you are talking about.
lifeisgood
New member
Are you saying that the verse presented is for everybody?
lifeisgood
New member
That is your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you though.
lifeisgood
New member
I have told you repeatedly that God is NOT a torturer.
Sure the wages of sin is death, but you are thinking of physical death.
“This son of mine was dead and is alive again” (Luke 15:24). Was the son dead? Absolutely, yes!
Well, you said that I don't believe the Bible and I would know that I believe the Bible from cover to cover.
Since your opinion is that I don't believe the Bible, why don't you give me one example of a verse from the Bible that you think I don't agree with and we can discuss that?
In the meantime, I will give you one verse that you don't agree with and I will tell you WHY I think you don't agree with it. The verse you don't agree with is John 3:16, since apparently you believe that nobody will perish and everybody will have eternal life, either in heavenly bliss or hellish torture.
I agree. God does not send anyone to hell be tortured alive forever, since the wages of sin is death.
When you say "Yes...But", you are really saying "No, I do not agree with that."
Sure, the wages of sin is death. And that means that the wages of sin is NOT eternal torture in hell.
Actually, if you read the parable of the prodigal son you will learn that the son was never dead.
Ben Masada
New member
As I am concerned, I cannot show you what does not exist.
Yes.
Whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but will have eternal life. Those who reject Him will perish. Those who accept Him will inherit eternal life.
Are you saying that there are some who can accept Jesus Christ and NOT inherit eternal life?
Are you saying that there are some who can reject Jesus Christ and STILL inherit eternal life?
Neither can "lifeisgood".
Rosenritter
New member
In the parable the son was dead figuratively. He would have starved, so the figure points to the soon to be reality, literal physical death.
Rosenritter
New member
I take issue with your translation though:
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 KJV
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
If the difference is in translation then maybe we should pull out the Greek and see, But even as yours is written, everlasting destruction doesn't leave room for life.
Rosenritter
New member
Cross reference is an example of why Universalism doesn't work. I have trouble believing that God will grant eternal life to someone that wants others to be kept alive for eternity for the purpose of torment.