Thank you, who needs to talk to a liar?
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
Thank you, who needs to talk to a liar?
lifeisgood
New member
Yes, upon the second resurrection, still it will not be a 'physical' body, at least the way I understand it.
The Judgment seat of Christ is only for believers, at least the way I understand.
The Great White Throne judgment, for unbelievers, at least the way I understand.
Believers will receive a ‘glorified body’ just as Christ’s for we are being conformed to be as He is.
Unbelievers will receive a ‘body’; however, it will not be as Christ’s.
Believers when accepted by God having already received the new creation of God.
lifeisgood
New member
No, I do not wish to retract that bold statement.
Again, you are thinking of 'fire' as in the 'physical' sense as we think of fire.
I am thinking of 'fire' in the way God thinks about it.
And what's that?
A person in total and complete separation from God knowing and understanding that NOW (in hell) knowing and understanding that he/she rejected what he/she was presented with and NOW (in hell) cannot have what they rejected and wanting it desperately.
And what is it that they want?
To be with God.
Talk about 'destruction' in the 'fire' of understanding eternally.
Cross Reference
New member
Every "body" will come out of the grave by being reunited with its soul to either Life everlasting in Heaven or eternal damnation, without end, in Hell, "eternal damnation" called by Jesus, the "second death": "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14-15 (KJV)
Question: How can the already "everlasting" dead be judged, per Rev 20:12,13 KJV? Are they not already, "everlastingly" annihilated?
Question: How can the already "everlasting" dead be judged, per Rev 20:12,13 KJV? Are they not already, "everlastingly" annihilated?
lifeisgood
New member
Again, God does NOT torture anybody.
God created Hell for Satan and all his minions and that include all those who reject Jesus Christ and His finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary.
lifeisgood
New member
Why are you asking me? Am I God?
lifeisgood
New member
I did not know that I was having a contest with the Holy Spirit and that He left you to be the judge in His place.
lifeisgood
New member
Because as I understand the Bible 'hell fire' is total and complete separation from God without the possibility of ever changing that.
Talk about being 'tortured' in the 'fire' of understanding eternally remembering that one day you heard the Gospel and rejected it and desperately wanting to change your mind and knowing and understanding that that is impossible.
lifeisgood
New member
You do not want the definition of 'eternal' to be 'eternal' take it up with God for He is the one who created language.
"...let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged" (Romans 3:4).
Matthew 10:28
"rather fear the one who is able to destroy both body and soul in gehenna".
2 Thessalonians 1:9
They pay the penalty of eternal destruction, not eternal preservation so that God can torture them alive.
You do not believe Matthew 25:41, since you do not believe that the wicked will really be burnt up in the eternal fire.
I know! That is why the doctrine of eternal conscious torture in hell is so bad. It paints God as a sadistic torturer.
I guess you forgot that the dead will be resurrected at the final judgment. They will not be everlastingly destroyed until AFTER they are judged.
lifeisgood
New member
Once again, 'hell fire' means total and complete separation from God without the possibility of ever changing that.
Talk about being 'tortured' in the 'fire' of understanding eternally remembering that one day you heard the Gospel and rejected it and desperately wanting to change your mind and knowing and understanding that that is impossible.
lifeisgood
New member
Jesus, Paul, and John teach that the suffering of the lost in hell will know no end.
Sinclair Ferguson is right: it is our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who spoke most clearly of the dark side of eternity. To be faithful to Him, we must do the same.
Cross Reference
New member
You have forgotten much, purposely I suppose, that has affected this discussion in a negative way.
<back on Ignore>
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Actually, they do not.
Jesus said that those in gehenna will be destroyed, both body and soul. That's the opposite of not being destroyed and merely suffering.
Paul wrote that the wages of sin is death, that's the opposite of living in constant suffering in hell.
John wrote that whosover believes in him shall not PERISH but will have eternal life. That is plainly stating that those who reject Christ will perish and will not have eternal life.
In fact, there is no place in the entire Bible where it says that the wicked will go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive forever. But consistently the Bible teaches that the wicked will be destroyed on the day of Judgment.
Please provide the Chapter and Verse from the Bible that states "Hell Fire means total and complete separation from God." Thanks
Why don't you try to answer the questions?
They seem very straightforward. I would say
1D.
2E.
3D.
4E.
How would you answer?
It is nearly impossible to get someone who believes in eternal torture to answer a simple question.
Here are my answers:
DEDE
I predict that the tormentists will refuse to answer at all.
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 King James Version