Pitiful answer.
"Destroy" means "Destroy" and it does not mean "to never ever destroy, but instead to preserve someone alive forever so that God can torture them forever in hell."
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
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Pitiful answer.
"Destroy" means "Destroy" and it does not mean "to never ever destroy, but instead to preserve someone alive forever so that God can torture them forever in hell."
Everlasting means everlasting. Everlasting life means life that lasts forever.
Everlasting death means death that lasts forever.
I wasn't trying to insult you when I asked if English is your second language. It really seems like you do not understand that everlasting death means death that lasts forever. Do you think that everlasting death is only temporary?
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"Everlasting" means "Everlasting"! Now what was that you were saying "everlasting" life being different from "everlasting" death? They are not 'everlastingly' the same you say?
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What are you talking about???
I NEVER said that everlasting death was different from everlasting death. You are very confused.
Everlasting LIFE is LIFE that lasts forever!
Everlasting DEATH is DEATH that lasts forever!
DEATH is NOT LIFE! HELLO???
DEATH is not eternal life! Hello? Can is anybody in there? Do you have a brain?
Life is the OPPOSITE of Death! Death is the opposite of Life! Are you blind? Do you not understand English?
Eternal LIFE is the OPPOSITE of Eternal DEATH, because DEATH is the OPPOSITE OF LIFE? Hello? Is any of this penetrating the brick wall? Eternal is the SAME as Eternal, what is different is that DEATH is NOT THE SAME as LIFE! IF you have a dead dog, and I have a living dog, we are not in the same position. Your dog is dead, he can't fetch sticks. My dog is alive, he CAN fetch sticks. Your brain is dead, it cannot think. My brain is alive, it can think.
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You have consistently stated that everlasting does not mean forever as you have made eternal as not being forever. So don't try to squirm out of it..
You somehow believe "Everlasting life" is forever while hanging to "Everlasting death" as somehow being a short "lived" experience... whatever that means. Perhaps you can explain or maybe don't want to and keep going around in circles.. This isn't about life and death but the word, "everlasting". Does it or does it not mean , . . forever as in there is no end, ever.
Everlasting life = everlasting living
Everlasting death = everlasting dying. . . . neither experience has an ending.
Get it now?
You do not understand. Perhaps you are willfully misunderstanding in a misguided attempt to make it seem like you are not wrong.
Are you aware that Death means "Not Alive"? If you are not aware of this, you should consider it.
If a person is "Not Alive" is it not conceivable even to a person of limited intelligence that the person who is "Not Alive" could remain "Not Alive" forever? Now, consider the fact that the condition of "Not Alive" will continue for as long as the person remains Not Alive. If the Not Alive person never regains life, they remain Not Alive Forever. In other words, the person is in an everlasting condition of "Not Alive". Since we all agree that the condition of "Not Alive" is called "Death", then Death when it never ends is "everlasting death".
I get that you are trying play fast and loose with the English language to make it seem like life and death are really the same thing. Your attempt failed.
You are not being truthful. I have NEVER ONCE stated that everlasting does not mean forever. You are a liar.
Let's try to get you to understand the meaning of words this way:
If I paint my car red, and it remains red forever the color red on my car is everlasting. Do you agree?
If you paint your car green, and it remains green forever, the color green on your car is everlasting. Same thing, right? Both are everlasting, but one color is red and one color is green. Now, we know that green and red are not the same color, you might say that they are opposites. Eternally red is the opposite of eternally green. Can you understand this?
Now consider two other opposites, life and death.
If I have eternal life, I remain alive forever. If I do not have eternal life, I do not remain alive forever.
If I have eternal death, I remain dead forever. This is the opposite of remaining alive forever. Now surely, even a person as dumb as you are can understand this.
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Our soul cannot die which makes everything eternal to continue in our lives forever; all eternity and will one day after you and I die, be reunited with our body of dust. It will eternally reside somewhere and if with our New Spirit already gifted us from above, with Jesus Christ, to live FOREVER. If not with our New Spirit, then with our old one, which will place us away from the presence of God for all of eternity. Make no mistake about it we will go to a place where the "worm can't die". Our soul will be as the "worm", ever alive to its surroundings. Sortta like the complete antithesis of Heaven, that the whole experience of being destroyed will engulf us BECAUSE that is the way it can only be absent the presence of God. There remains NO OTHER PLACE FOR US TO GO. Now, I don't believe that for US but for those who reject[]ed God while they had the many chances given to repent and turn from their wicked ways. God has provided no other plan nor He alter this one. It is etched in Eternal Stone.
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Indeed you have as well as everyone else in your crowd. You even have your own dictionaries to support "they don't mean what is implied". Your present position testifies to your believing for two different meanings. You have also completely ignored the passages of scripture I have submitted that CANNOT be refuted. Should I publish them again?
You are lying again. I have never, not once said "Everlasting does not mean forever" and I challenge you to produce the post where I said that. You think that you can just lie and get away with it, but you can't. I guarantee that you will not produce ANY post where I said "Everlasting does not mean forever".
You will try to squirm out of your lie, as your kind always does.
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My kind, eh? Let it be from me that you are Spiritually deaf. You 'need' the meaning of the word as you have to remain as you have it. Your religious bent depends upon your success.
Both life and death are experiences, a crossing over, if you will. EVER-LASTING life being an experience of never ending life as in "lasting forever". Same for death. It is a forever "experience" starting with the rejection of God while still breathing the breath of Life while with the living upon Earth. That is the beginning of its journey for all eternity and it will never end for that one eternally separated from God..
Side Note: What do you think of "everlasting hope"? Does that fit your scenario?
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Jesus led the way, didn't He.
way 2 go
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:chuckle:
Do you really think one can live forever while having died the second death in the lake of fire?
LA
Rosenritter
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Accept this challenge then.
You present a question. Then wait for an answer.
I will answer the question. Then ask you a question. And wait for your answer.
No jumping around around or refusing to answer the question or evasion. Answers must be from scripture. At the first proven scriptural contradiction the discussion stops and resolves said contradiction. No unsubstantiated claims or you lose after a warning and chance to correct.
I know this will be a massive change for you. I don't think you will take this challenge.
Rosenritter
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Acts 24:13-16 KJV
(13) Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
(14) But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
(15) And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
(16) And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
Rosenritter
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Who, you ask? There's an interesting collection of examples here from which I will borrow a couple:
Bishop Newcomb
“The door of mercy will be shut and all bowels of compassion denied, by God, who will laugh at their destruction; by angels and saints, who will rejoice when they see the vengeance' by their fellow-suffer the devil and the damned rejoicing over their misery.” Catechetical Sermons
Tertullian
“At that greatest of all spectacles, that last and eternal judgment how shall I admire, how laugh, how rejoice, how exult, when I behold so many proud monarchs groaning in the lowest abyss of darkness; so many magistrates liquefying in fiercer flames than they ever kindled against the Christians; so many sages philosophers blushing in red-hot fires with their deluded pupils; so many tragedians more tuneful in the expression of their own sufferings; so many dancers tripping more nimbly from anguish then ever before from applause."
“What a spectacle. . .when the world. . .and its many products, shall be consumed in one great flame! How vast a spectacle then bursts upon the eye! What there excites my admiration? What my derision? Which sight gives me joy? As I see. . .illustrious monarchs. . . groaning in the lowest darkness, Philosophers. . .as fire consumes them! Poets trembling before the judgment-seat of. . .Christ! I shall hear the tragedians, louder-voiced in their own calamity; view play-actors. . .in the dissolving flame; behold wrestlers, not in their gymnasia, but tossing in the fiery billows. . .What inquisitor or priest in his munificence will bestow on you the favor of seeing and exulting in such things as these? Yet even now we in a measure have them by faith in the picturings of imagination.” [De Spectaculis, Chapter XXX]
Augustine
“They who shall enter into [the] joy [of the Lord] shall know what is going on outside in the outer darkness. . .The saints'. . . knowledge, which shall be great, shall keep them acquainted. . .with the eternal sufferings of the lost.” [The City of God, Book 20, Chapter 22, "What is Meant by the Good Going Out to See the Punishment of the Wicked" & Book 22, Chapter 30, "Of the Eternal Felicity of the City of God, and of the Perpetual Sabbath"]
Thomas Aquinas
In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned. . .So that they may be urged the more to praise God. . .The saints in heaven know distinctly all that happens. . .to the damned. [Summa Theologica, Third Part, Supplement, Question XCIV, "Of the Relations of the Saints Towards the Damned," First Article, "Whether the Blessed in Heaven Will See the Sufferings of the Damned. . ."]
“The same fire” (which he decides to be material) “ torments the damned in hell and the just in purgatory…The least pain in purgatory exceeds the greatest in this life.” Summa Theo. Suppl. Qu. 100, acts. 2, n. 3.
Jonathan Edwards
“The view of the misery of the damned will double the ardour of the love and gratitude of the saints of heaven.”
The sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the saints forever. . .Can the believing father in Heaven be happy with his unbelieving children in Hell. . . I tell you, yea! Such will be his sense of justice that it will increase rather than diminish his bliss.
["The Eternity of Hell Torments" (Sermon), April 1739 & Discourses on Various Important Subjects, 1738]
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Tell me, does it seem like these men hear the voice of the Lamb, or have they hardened their hearts?