Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
Lazy afternoon said:
A soul is the life of a body with its spirit.
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This is correct. We are spirit-beings, who live in bodies of flesh which make us living SOULS.
When the body is made disfunctional or God withdraws the spirit of it then the soul is dead.
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Do you have a Scripture you base this theory on? One that says ANYTHING about God withdrawing a spirit form someone?
There is no consciousness or any life when one is dead.
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We believe that because we cannot see. The Bible says otherwise:

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

We see that men are not un-conscious or absent from 'any life' after their body dies. They face judgment. They haven't received eternal life. They are in God's Presence. They are in outer darkness. They have been awakened in bodies just like they had on earth. If they had one leg on earth, they will have one leg when they face judgment. God is not going to heal someone so that they can be whole in hell. He puts them there in the same shape they were in when they died. Not one soul will raise a single argument against His Judgment. His ways are perfect. All will know they deserve the fate they receive. All of us deserve it. It is only His Grace through The Blood of His Son that we are saved.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Lazy afternoon said:
A soul is the life of a body with its spirit.

When the body is made disfunctional or God withdraws the spirit of it then the soul is dead.

There is no consciousness or any life when one is dead.

Christ returns to raise the dead.

LA
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Our spirits live on after the death of our bodies.

That is what the scriptures say.
 
Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
Lazy afternoon said:
This passage refers to the sufferings of the beast worshippers during the vials of wrath beginning at the return of Christ plus a short time... by the time of the 7th vial they are all dead.
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No, it clearly states that... If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

It doesn't say they are cast into the Lake of Fire when they receive the mark. They are 'marked' by their actions when they do so and the mark causes them to be 'marked' for judgment. They live on until their death, whether it's by natural causes or by acts of God (such as what you refer to in Revelation 16). They'll still be tormented day and night for ever and ever, even after falling prey to God's great wrath. Their judgment is set the moment they worship the beast and receive his mark. They don't get the consequences of that judgment until after their death.
 
R

rstrats

Active member
Aimiel,

re: "I guess you haven't read this passage in Revelation 14..."


You have guessed incorrectly. And there is nothing said in Revelation 14: 9-11 about anyone being tormented eternally.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Aimiel said:
This is correct. We are spirit-beings, who live in bodies of flesh which make us living SOULS.Do you have a Scripture you base this theory on? One that says ANYTHING about God withdrawing a spirit form someone?We believe that because we cannot see. The Bible says otherwise:

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

We see that men are not un-conscious or absent from 'any life' after their body dies. They face judgment. They haven't received eternal life. They are in God's Presence. They are in outer darkness. They have been awakened in bodies just like they had on earth. If they had one leg on earth, they will have one leg when they face judgment. God is not going to heal someone so that they can be whole in hell. He puts them there in the same shape they were in when they died. Not one soul will raise a single argument against His Judgment. His ways are perfect. All will know they deserve the fate they receive. All of us deserve it. It is only His Grace through The Blood of His Son that we are saved.
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No.

Job 34:14 If He should set His heart on it, If He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath,
Job 34:15 All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust.


A man is not a spirit, but has a spirit.

LA
 
Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
You will be given a glorified body. Jesus came back to earth after He was glorified and He ate fish with the disciples. We'll be able to do the same.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Aimiel said:
You will be given a glorified body. Jesus came back to earth after He was glorified and He ate fish with the disciples. We'll be able to do the same.
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Jesus received his glorified body in God's presence, the same glorified body he had before the world began. See John 17:5

My spirit will live after the death of my body. When Jesus resurrects the dead, then I will be given a body like his.

I died already, and my life is now hidden with Christ in God.

When Christ, who is my life, appears, then I also will appear with him in glory.

See Colossians 3:3, and 4.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
God's Truth said:
My body will be dead but my spirit will live on with the Lord with thoughts, feelings, sight, and actions.
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This is wrong because one is dead until made alive in the resurrection.

and you need the body to experience such things.

Take note all who read--

The rich man was in his body after his raising and judgment passed upon him and the parable depicts the millennium situation, not after the last judgment.

Luk 16:23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'




LA
 
T

Timotheos

New member
God's Truth said:
To put an end to it as we know it.
That does not mean cease to exist anywhere.
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No, the definition of destroy does not mean "to put an end to is as we know it". As we know it is your own personal addition to the definition. You didn't look up the definition, did you?

It means to disappear from one’s sight. That does not mean cease to exist anywhere.
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No, perish does not mean "to disappear from one's sight". Look it up.


We die physically in this earth, but we still live on in our spirit.
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Does the Bible say that unbelievers live on in spirit forever? IF so, where?


We die in our physical body in this world, but our spirit lives on. I can prove it easily. Read how man cannot kill the body with the spirit. A soul is a body with the spirit.


Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
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This does not say the soul and body cannot be destroyed in hell. It says that the soul and body CAN be destroyed in hell. This PROVES that the body and soul can be destroyed, just as I said.

I'm sorry that you can't accept this, but God's Word says that the lost will perish.
 
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