Is calling Beanieboy a . . .

[Justin (Wiccan)]

This post barely makes any sense. What do you mean by God claiming jurisdiction? God has jurisdiction over the whole shooting match you silly fool.

That is the claim that some Christians make. Yet I see some of those self-same Christians who proclaim the standard, yet do not follow it. How am I to know if such a standard is true when those who proclaim it do not even follow it?

He has authority to end this whole little drama we call life and send you and your homo buddies right straight to Hell any time He wants. The only reason you're alive is because of the patience and mercy of God. Every breath you draw is drawn because God has delayed His judgement upon you.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

You presume upon the patience and mercy of the living God and thereby store up judgment for yourself.

And your source that I presume upon His patience?

Justin

 

[On Fire]

That's the actual question that brings it back to the actual topic of the thread. Does God claim jurisdiction, or are people trying to sell me a bill of goods in His name?

If a Christian states that God claims jurisdiction over sexual sin (citing Romans 1), yet that same Christian has forgotten that God also claims jurisdiction over their speech (Col 4:6), then why should I, as a non-Christian, believe the first claim?

Justin

You used the word forgotten. They haven't forgotten, they are sinners. We are all sinners.

 

[Clete]

That is the claim that some Christians make. Yet I see some of those self-same Christians who proclaim the standard, yet do not follow it. How am I to know if such a standard is true when those who proclaim it do not even follow it?

You already know it's true, you just choose to ignore the truth becaue you love darkness rather than light.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

And your source that I presume upon His patience?

Justin

You own words betray you Justine. You are trying to accuse Christians of hypocricy while playing the hypocrite yourself! Even if every Christian on the planet is a hypocrite, that doesn't change the fact that God is holy and He is the standard of righteousness not Christians, not the BIble, and certainly not whatever convoluted Wiccan nonsense you've managed to come up with on your own.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

You used the word forgotten.

Why, so I did.

They haven't forgotten, they are sinners.

According to your text, then, these people who are doing wrong (ie, these people who are violating Col 4:6) are not born again?

So let's look at 1 John 3:6....

6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

If disobedience to Col 4:6 is a sin, then those who willfully continue to engage in such behavior are willfully continuing in sin. Yet the author of 1 John says that those who continue to sin does not live in Him [God].

We are all sinners.

And once again: how do I believe your claim for this, much less your claim for the "cure" for the condition? Looking around me, I see several people who look like the cure didn't work for them.

1 John 4: 7-11

7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

On Fire, this is the love whereby I know those who know God. Yes, I've borrowed your scriptures to establish the point, but my experience teaches me the same. 1 John is not speaking of love between Christians, but the love Christians are supposed to have for the unsaved: the image of that love is the love God had for us--the love that, according to your scriptures, was the reason God sent His Son.

As Christians, you are supposed to love non-Christians as much as God loved them. Yet for all I see, most Christians don't even love other Christians that much.

No, On Fire, I will not follow your advice and become Christian. By the example of several of the Christians in this thread, I would be forced to love my neighbors far less. And to do so would dishonor God, who Created us all.

Justin

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

You already know it's true, you just choose to ignore the truth becaue you love darkness rather than light.

This is where you are incorrect, Clete. I once followed the Christian path ... to use your terminology, God could not deliver me from the darkness that I loved. Once I became Wiccan, I realized that the actual problem was not with God, but with the rules, traditions, and dogma of man.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

You assert, by this verse, that I do not "glorify Him as God." You will probably never discover just how wrong you are.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

And is there not every bit as much evil--by your standards--in disobeying Col 4:6 as there is in disobeying Rom 1?

Justin

 

[Granite]

For a while I really hoped the title of this thread was ironic.

Guess that was wishful thinking...:nono:

 

[Poly]

beanieboy will continue to be unhappy as long as anyone dares to point out that homosexuality is wrong...it doesn't matter if you spit the most vile of words and if you couch it in the prettiest of terms. His problem is he wants us to all give a stamp of approval to his perversion...as long as he is unable to acknowledge that his sleeping with men is a sin, we will continue to see his endless posts misrepresenting Christ's Words.

And here is the difference between him and most of the rest of us: when someone points out my sin, or when I silently consider my own sin, I am ashamed...embarrassed...and I repent and pray for God's mercy. I don't puff up and pretend that God approves of my transgressions. beanie is unable to do this because if he did, he would have to confront the need to alter his lifestyle.

It's actually very sad.

POTD :up:

 

[God_Is_Truth]

That would mean that priests live in sin, because they do not produce. That would mean that people who have sex when they are not reproducing are not loving.
Sex is more complicated than that. Old people have sex. People have sex who do not love each other. People have sex to reproduce, and at other times, to sexually satisfy one another with no intention for children.

not doing the act is not the same as doing a peversion of it. i am not suggesting that sex is only allowed when reproducting.

And coupling has more to do with sex. It's about supporting another, comforting another, inspiring another, encouraging another... sex is a tiny, tiny part of a relationship.

i would not say it's a tiny aspect, but i agree that it's not the only aspect.

Even male/female is more complicated. (There are those who are born with both sex organs - it happens...So, before modern medicine, which would that person be with to be "heterosexual"?

irrelevent to our discussion.

I am not saying to be self serving, nor conceited.

Often, people who are suicidal, or abusing drugs, or prostitutes, are so convinced that they are not worthy of love that they don't love themselves, or care for themselves. The suicide person, therefore, truly believes that the world is better without them, but the truth is, they hurt everyone that loved them.

but still, as one grows to love ones self, it becomes harder and harder to love others the same way.

I don't see homosexuality as the same thing.
I see no negative repercussions that can't be said of heterosexuals.

it is still a perversion of that which God declared to be good. it is therefore dishonoring to him to engage in such acts.

But as for loving oneself, I must wholey disagree. Those who are happy, love themselves, and because they love themselves, they love other people. Their loves comes genuinely from within.

most people love themselves but do not love others. love for oneself breeds more love for oneself, not love for others.

Those who harm others are generally unhappy. They delight in mocking others, bullying others, harming others, have no compassion or sympathy for their vicitims... That's why I question so many users here. I feel depressed when I'm here. No, not because I am looking for approval, but becasue I see people who are supposed to be the light of the world, as I as taught, acting like poisinous snakes, ready to bite and devour anyone that dare disagree, and anyone that dare knock them off of the pedastal that they have exhalted themselves to.

That's how I imagine the end days.

that's how it is today.

 

[beanieboy]

but still, as one grows to love ones self, it becomes harder and harder to love others the same way..

I guess we will have to agree not to agree.
If one does not love oneself, then how can he love his neighbor as himself, if he doesn't love himself?

A bully isn't one who loves himself and not others. They are usually buliled, and take out their anger and sadness on others.

One who is conceited is usually fully of insecurity, and so, over compensates, and is highly critical of others whom they think are better than they are.

Those who kill themselves are convinced everyone hates them, and that they aren't loveable.

These are very disabling things.

But those who are happy with themselves show that happiness to others. Someone who has true love for themself will be humble, will encourage others, will delight in helping others.

 

[God_Is_Truth]

I guess we will have to agree not to agree.
If one does not love oneself, then how can he love his neighbor as himself, if he doesn't love himself?

i agree that one can't love others unless one first loves himself, but i deny that loving oneself leads to loving others.

A bully isn't one who loves himself and not others. They are usually buliled, and take out their anger and sadness on others.

yes i agree.

But those who are happy with themselves show that happiness to others. Someone who has true love for themself will be humble, will encourage others, will delight in helping others.

they ought to, but they don't necessarily.

 

[beanieboy]

it is still a perversion of that which God declared to be good. it is therefore dishonoring to him to engage in such acts.

www.whosoever.org would disagree.

But I respect your opinion. I personally can't find any negative repercussion to it, nor do i believe that anyone can change from homosexual to heterosexual. You can live a life as a celebate homosexual, but trying to live a life as a heterosexual, as some of my friends have done, usually ends in divorce, and splitting the family apart.

I think that is much more detrimental, as well as dishonest.

 

[On Fire]

According to your text, then, these people who are doing wrong (ie, these people who are violating Col 4:6) are not born again?

So let's look at 1 John 3:6....

If disobedience to Col 4:6 is a sin, then those who willfully continue to engage in such behavior are willfully continuing in sin. Yet the author of 1 John says that those who continue to sin does not live in Him [God].

KEEPS ON SINNING = 3d Per Sing Pres Act Ind meaning "continually/habitually sinning" (continuous action [linear], rather than an occasional sin or mistake [punctiliar]). Compare with 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18.

Nice try. Since your premise is faulty, I'll assume the rest of your post is equally garbage.

 

[beanieboy]

i agree that one can't love others unless one first loves himself, but i deny that loving oneself leads to loving others.
yes i agree.
they ought to, but they don't necessarily.

My African Dance teacher says, "I love being me. I am exceedingly glad that I am who I am. Do you thank God for who you are? You should. It is your gift from the Creator, and a gift to us."

He makes me only feel loved, and want to love myself.

I don't see it as arrogance at all, but something that I want to aspire to.

In turn, I also want to reach out to others, especially those convinced that they are worthless. That's what the world does. We degrade each other, tell others they are idiot, or morons, are stupid, are pansies/sissies/girly men faggots, are fat cows, are lie-berals, are conservative with no soul...

We spend some much time cutting each other down, and very little building each other up.

When I'm angry, or down on myself, I easily tell people off, am harsh, am inpatient, slip in cheap shots, but when I am feeling good, I can give complements away easily. I don't want to criticize, but will critique in a Food for Thought way and leave it at that.

I think it is imparitve to love yourself in order to love others.
As a Christian, if Jesus is in your heart, then, yes, the love for others will come internally (from your heart, from Jesus.)

As a Buddhist, you are to treat all people as if they are your close family member - with honor and respect.
It's tough, but it is what is right.

 

[God_Is_Truth]

www.whosoever.org would disagree.

But I respect your opinion. I personally can't find any negative repercussion to it

the strong possibility of aids isn't a negative reprecussion?

nor do i believe that anyone can change from homosexual to heterosexual.

why not?

You can live a life as a celebate homosexual, but trying to live a life as a heterosexual, as some of my friends have done, usually ends in divorce, and splitting the family apart.

I think that is much more detrimental, as well as dishonest.

to try to live as something you're not would be a lie and as you said, it usually doesn't work very well. i agree.

 

[God_Is_Truth]

My African Dance teacher says, "I love being me. I am exceedingly glad that I am who I am. Do you thank God for who you are? You should. It is your gift from the Creator, and a gift to us."

He makes me only feel loved, and want to love myself.

I don't see it as arrogance at all, but something that I want to aspire to.

i didn't say anything about arrogance. arrogance deals with making yourself more than you are. it's not about how much you love yourself.

but you still haven't shown how loving oneself leads to loving others. why would the command to love others as ourselves be stated so many times in the NT if it wasn't very hard to follow?

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

KEEPS ON SINNING = 3d Per Sing Pres Act Ind meaning "continually/habitually sinning" (continuous action [linear], rather than an occasional sin or mistake [punctiliar]). Compare with 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18.

First and foremost, credit your source. Secondly, I am quite aware of the Greek verb parsing ... look at the behavior in this thread. The behavior demonstrated here is "continual/habitual" (not to mention wilful) violations of Col 4:6, thereby fully qualifying under 1 John 3:6.

Nice try. Since your premise is faulty, I'll assume the rest of your post is equally garbage.

Care to try again?

Justin

 

[beanieboy]

the strong possibility of aids isn't a negative reprecussion?

Yes, the possibility of AIDS is a strong reprecussion.
World wide, there are more heterosexual cases than homosexual.
Having sex (even when married, if the other person cheats) opens you up to that possibility.

why not?

I have yet to see it. When I was dealing with it in my late teens, I read a lot of literature. Exodus was started by 2 reformed homosexuals. They fell in love with each other, denounced the organization altogether.

I think there are gay, bi, and straight people.
I suppose bi people can choose one over the other, but men attracted to men don't become attracted to women. People argue that you can be conditioned to find women attractive. Should it be a struggle to find women attractive when heterosexual men do with no conditioning? They simply go from hating girls at 10 to thinking only about sex at 15. They don't go into a training program.

to try to live as something you're not would be a lie and as you said, it usually doesn't work very well. i agree.

Yeah. I know at least 3 guys who tried to live as heterosexuals. He had to admit to his wife that his attractions were to men, they cried, they divorced, they take turns caring for their kids, etc.

Very sad.

 

[Jefferson]

I'm a little confused about Bob Enyart's take on this issue. For example Bob used to sell products on his show called "Gay-Away" and "Dyke-Off" The word "dyke" is the female equivalent to the word "fag." Yet the following exchange took place this week on Bob's talk-show:

Bob Enyart (quoting "reporter" Keith Swain"): And they shouted, "God hates fags."

Jo Scott: No one did that.

Bob: You guys didn't do that?

Jo: Nope.

Bob: Was it just on that occassion? Do you guy normally shout, "God hates fags?"

Jo: No.

Bob: No. Who does shout that?

Jo: Oh, that Phelps from Kansas.

Bob: So Phelps says things like that and it's dispicable. There is a line that God draws and we need to honor Him in everything we do and say.

Jo: Right.

Bob: And it seems to me that just shouting, "God hates fags," it's just their desire to be vulgar because they use 4 letter words. Dispicable. The most filthy mouthed things Fred Phelps and his 20 year old daughters say in public.

Maybe I'll call Bob's show to get him to clarify his position on this but I'm not sure I've got the time so if someone else wants to... But be sure to mention this thread that way TOL will get a nice plug!

 

[Zakath]

First and foremost, credit your source.

As you are witnessing, many of these people have little regard for intellectual property rights...

 

[beanieboy]

i didn't say anything about arrogance. arrogance deals with making yourself more than you are. it's not about how much you love yourself.

but you still haven't shown how loving oneself leads to loving others. why would the command to love others as ourselves be stated so many times in the NT if it wasn't very hard to follow?

It is hard to follow.

And I'm not saying one should love themself over others.

They should love themselves and others on a equal terms.

If someone is called ugly and stupid, and then internalizes that, will they easily reach out to others? They have enough to try and reach out to themselves.
But if one feels good about themself, they will see another calling themself ugly and stupid, and offer words of comfort and encouragement. So, it comes internally.

As I said, for a Christian, who has Christ in his heart, is not the source of that love, then internal, from feeling love from God, and loving God, and going externally from that point?

The well can care for the sick, but they must take care of themselves to be well enough to offer care.