ECT If MAD is False Why Did Paul Make the Distinction in Romans 4:16?

[dodge]

What don't you get about no one caring what you think of them personally and that you should keep your worthless opinions about others to yourself?

Though Danoh and I disagree on MAID I would prefer Danoh over your relentless condemnation of others based on your PRIDE, errors, and vitriolic and continuous self righteous rants any day.

Carry on with the condemnation without any regard for others who may be trapped in error as per usual for you.

 

[DAN P]

Paul is quoting an old testament prophecy of when God would cut off and harden some Jews.

Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.

Luke 8:10 He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Romans 11:8 as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."

Matthew 13:14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

Mark 4:12 so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"

Mark 8:17And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18"HAVING EYES, DO YOU NOT SEE? AND HAVING EARS, DO YOU NOT HEAR? And do you not remember,


So why did God cut off and harden some Jews?
God did that because He was making a new covenant.
The old covenant did not require faith, it required works for the people to clean themselves.
God did not like those Jews who would sin, give a sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins.
God said there were be a new covenant based on faith.
Some Jews had faith and some did not.
Those Jews who had faith were called the lost sheep of Israel.
Those were the Jews who already belonged to God by faith.


Of course not every single Jew rejected Jesus, for Paul says so himself:

Romans 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy.

See, Paul is merely showing that God has not cut off and hardened the whole nation of Israel forever, without any chance of salvation.
It must have seemed as if God cut off and hardened a whole ethnicity forever.


Again; the scripture is not saying every single Jew will be saved one day. The scripture is saying all Jews are not cut off forever.
The Jews have just as much a chance to get saved as any other nationality



Paul is again just explaining that Jews are not cut off forever, and if they do NOT PERSIST in UNBELIEF, they can be grafted back in.

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Hi and in 2 Cor 3:13 it is talking about Israel and not Gentiles and in Ron 11:26 , then ALL Israel will be saved and saved here means to DELIVER them from DEATH and that happens at the END of the Great Tribulation !!

Read Heb 11:23-28 !!

dan p

 

[God's Truth]

Though Danoh and I disagree on MAID I would prefer Danoh over your relentless condemnation of others based on your PRIDE, errors, and vitriolic and continuous self righteous rants any day.

Just listen to yourself, you prove it is you who you are talking about.

Carry on with the condemnation without any regard for others who may be trapped in error as per usual for you.

Prove it that I condemn people.

 

[God's Truth]

What don't I get about that?

That you do care about such attention, lol

You keep proving just that :chuckle:

You can't control yourself can you.

Try a little Romans 5:8 - quit adding your foolish works to His Cross and you won't care about what anyone thinks about you, one way or the other; beyond its' impact as a witness of Christ to others.

It is not my foolish works it is God's works.

 

[Lighthouse]

re 'if salvation was supposed to come to the Gentiles anyway.'
It was. 'In your Seed (one person) all the nations of the earth will be blessed' is the Gospel announced in advance, says Gal 3. When Israel went through the experience of seeing this happen, it did provoke some of them. Not enough.

What would make you jealous: Someone else getting what you have with the same conditions, or them getting it without any conditions?

The Jews did the purification works.

The purification works were required to belong to God.

God walked among the Jews, and they had the temple where God's Spirit was.

The old law was not based on faith.

God did not like it that the people could sin, give a sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins.

When the time for the New Covenant was to come, God cut off all faithless Jews.

The New Covenant was based on faith.

The Jews who had faith, they remained God's; but they now had to go through Jesus to remain God's.

The Jews who did not have faith, they were cut off.



It could make the cut off Jews jealous and turn to have faith in Jesus and be saved.



Jesus is the good news. You make Paul the good news, and that is not right.

:doh:

Eres un idiota muy estúpido.

 

[Right Divider]

No kidding not Paul. Why would you say that? Paul was one of the cut off Jews.

And YET he got saved....

There's a problem with your story.

 

[Danoh]

Though Danoh and I disagree on MAID I would prefer Danoh over your relentless condemnation of others based on your PRIDE, errors, and vitriolic and continuous self righteous rants any day.

Carry on with the condemnation without any regard for others who may be trapped in error as per usual for you.

lol - your comment there, reminds me of a Reformed Pastor friend of mine, described in the Spoiler below...

Spoiler

Whenever I call him up, he jokingly asks "what's up, heretic, lol"

Whenever he calls me up, I right off rib him with "Calvin, how are your errors, these days, lol"

We've been there for one another, on one thing or another, despite our obviously vastly different understandings...

The "grace" in "the grace that is in Christ Jesus" allowed to reign.

Lol - recently, when I went to see him about some thing or another; I forget what...

I found him in the backyard of his assembly painting the porch while another friend of his: a rabid 7th Day Adventist; was reading him the riot act about his Reformed views, lol.

Lol - he sees me, a mischievous gleem comes over his face, and he says "hey heretic, here; meet a friend of mine"

The person turns to me, and without even a hello, just went into their spiel, lol

I said nothing; though tempted I was to "rightly divide them..."

As my Reformed Pastor friend and I have both obviously concluded "is bickering all there is to "life in Christ Jesus?"

It gets old. Really old, bro.

That, and the fool notion that "Christian" debate is about looking down at another; and about slights and or perceived slights, and payback.

So yeah, I concur, bro - at times I myself end up preferring the company of non- MADs, over that of some of my so called "own."

People like my Pastor friend and others like them (MADs or not) have a "grace" attitude or lightheartedness, when it comes to pointing a thing out and or when a thing is pointed out to them.

Or as the Lord put it through the pen of the Apostle Paul - "charity" 1 Cor. 13.

This is what I have meant when I have at times posted to you that you can address the issues you believe you are addressing, but without having to allow yourself the duplicity of those opposed, in return.

It is ever tempting; as such ever seem to live for that kind of thing.

But again, as the Lord had also put it through the pen of the Apostle Paul...

Galatians 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 

[dodge]

lol - your comment there, reminds me of a Reformed Pastor friend of mine, described in the Spoiler below...

Spoiler

Whenever I call him up, he jokingly asks "what's up, heretic, lol"

Whenever he calls me up, I right off rib him with "Calvin, how are your errors, these days, lol"

We've been there for one another, on one thing or another, despite our obviously vastly different understandings...

The "grace" in "the grace that is in Christ Jesus" allowed to reign.

Lol - recently, when I went to see him about some thing or another; I forget what...

I found him in the backyard of his assembly painting the porch while another friend of his: a rabid 7th Day Adventist; was reading him the riot act about his Reformed views, lol.

Lol - he sees me, a mischievous gleem comes over his face, and he says "hey heretic, here; meet a friend of mine"

The person turns to me, and without even a hello, just went into their spiel, lol

I said nothing; though tempted I was to "rightly divide them..."

As my Reformed Pastor friend and I have both obviously concluded "is bickering all there is to "life in Christ Jesus?"

It gets old. Really old, bro.

That, and the fool notion that "Christian" debate is about looking down at another; and about slights and or perceived slights, and payback.

So yeah, I concur, bro - at times I myself end up preferring the company of non- MADs, over that of some of my so called "own."

People like my Pastor friend and others like them (MADs or not) have a "grace" attitude or lightheartedness, when it comes to pointing a thing out and or when a thing is pointed out to them.

Or as the Lord put it through the pen of the Apostle Paul - "charity" 1 Cor. 13.

This is what I have meant when I have at times posted to you that you can address the issues you believe you are addressing, but without having to allow yourself the duplicity of those opposed, in return.

It is ever tempting; as such ever seem to live for that kind of thing.

But again, as the Lord had also put it through the pen of the Apostle Paul...

Galatians 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Good post Danoh ! There be wisdom in that spoiler.

I know if the desire and purpose is not redemptive it generally is not of God.

 

[Danoh]

Good post Danoh ! There be wisdom in that spoiler.

I know if the desire and purpose is not redemptive it generally is not of God.

In relation to your response to my post to you; I was wondering what YOU are referring to in YOUR use of the word "redemptive" there?

Given that words often tend to mean different things to different people...

Thanks,

Rom. 5:8
Prov. 27:17

 

[dodge]

In relation to your response to my post to you; I was wondering what YOU are referring to in YOUR use of the word "redemptive" there?

Given that words often tend to mean different things to different people...

Thanks,

Rom. 5:8
Prov. 27:17

Redemptive : Introducing others to the truth in Christ Jesus concerning their own eternity. Helping others out of error and into a deeper and truthful understanding of scripture to inflame a desire to follow and live the truth of God in Christ Jesus.

It is my belief that Christianity is not a passive relationship with God, but a daily desire to live for and follow where ever the Holy Spirit leads those in the B.O.C..

 

[Lighthouse]

Has anyone answered the original question yet?

 

[tetelestai]

Has anyone answered the original question yet?

Yes.

Wick Stick explained it to you on the first page.

However, you are only interested in trying to defend MAD, so you don't like his answer.

 

[Lighthouse]

Has anyone answered the original question yet?

I didn't think so.

 

[tetelestai]

I didn't think so.

Are you really this dense?

Post #14 answered your question.

Just because you don't like the answer, doesn't mean your question wasn't answered.

 

[7Spirits]

Are you really this dense?

Post #14 answered your question.

Just because you don't like the answer, doesn't mean your question wasn't answered.

Good post, but too long.

The original names for the two divisions were the House of Judah and the House of Israel. I believe Jeremiah 31 is a topic of discussion, currently, and that is the language used there.

Realize, though, that the "House of Israel" wasn't just scattered, they were completely disowned (Hosea 1:8-10), divorced (Jer 3:8), and ceased to even exist as a distinct people (Isa 7:8, 1Pe 2:10), because they were so blended into the goyim.

The prophecy of this group in Jeremiah and elsewhere isn't just a reconciliation with Judah. The prophecy is that even though they don't so much as exist, they will be called out of the nations, come back, and start to exist again.

The work Jesus commissioned the twelve to, was to go into the nations and preach to "the lost sheep of the house of israel, so that they might be gathered.

However...

If you read John 8 critically and honestly, you will find the core teachings of Jesus as regards paternity and inheritance. The gist of it is that paternity may be determined by looking at behavior. Act like the devil, and it's because you born of the devil. Act like Abraham, and it's because you are his legitimate offspring.

Abraham believed. Those who believe as Abraham are, ipso facto, Abraham's offspring.

But the House of Israel is no longer under the Law, and no longer under circumcision. You see, they were divorced from that covenant; cut off utterly.

To add them back requires an adoption. They could have been added back to the circumcision, and indeed the commotion of Acts was about whether that was the right thing to do. However, the church recognized that the right thing to do was to add them back to Abraham, without adding them back to the Law and circumcision.

As Gen 17:4 says,

As for Me, behold, My covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many goyim.

This looks like a kindergartner threw up a mormons take me n Israel.

This is trash! Lighthouse has you stumpeded and you are a theological joke.

 

[7Spirits]

This looks like a kindergartner threw up a mormons take on Israel.

This is trash! Lighthouse has you stumped and you are a theological joke.

Edited for spelling.

 

[tetelestai]

This looks like a kindergartner threw up a mormons take me n Israel.

Nope.

Understanding that Israel was divided into two houses, and that God divorced the House of Israel is backed with scripture.

Now, here's a really glaring fact:

Both Mormonism and Dispensationalism were invented in 1830.

 

[whitestone]

Nope.

Understanding that Israel was divided into two houses, and that God divorced the House of Israel is backed with scripture.

Now, here's a really glaring fact:

Both Mormonism and Dispensationalism were invented in 1830.

lol,

Thats one of the most dispensational things I think you have ever said,that is that there are the "those distinctions",,,oop's

 

[whitestone]

Daniel 9:24 KJV is this Judah,or Israel? who? make a distinction between the two...

 

[tetelestai]

Daniel 9:24 KJV is this Judah,or Israel? who? make a distinction between the two...

Daniel's prophecy was for the Jews and Jerusalem. The prophecy had nothing to do with the Israelites from the House of Israel.