ECT If MAD is False Why Did Paul Make the Distinction in Romans 4:16?

[Interplanner]

So in Jeremiah 29:5 KJV (but read the whole chapter) it is said that they would be taken into captivity and it would be for a long time Jeremiah 29:28 KJV .

Now at some point all this would end and the Kingdom would be restored Acts 1:6-7 KJV and after what is being told to Daniel about "his people" then and only after the entire set of times of their captivity have been accomplished then they wont be ruled by the kingdom’s any longer.

But the issue is this that is in those days Rome,the fourth beast,great and terrible is still in charge and still over the "thy people" just like Jeremiah and the angel said.

So then along comes Paul,(Romans 13:1 KJV),Peter,(1Peter 2:13-14 KJV) and the writer of Hebrews,(Hebrews 13:17 KJV) and as if they still think the fourth beast is still in power(Rome) they tell us to acknowledge the authority as if from God,(Romans 13:1 KJV).

Now so what do you suggest Israel do should they take the advice of the apostles and obey the authority set over them in ad66(Rome=4th beast) or rebel and act as though the 4th beast no longer has them in exile like Jeremiah,the angel and Daniel said?

Now somebody is really confusing something that is some conclude that the 70 weeks had all come to it's finality by ad70. In ad66 if you notice those same "thy people" decided to revolt against the authority of the 4th beast better known as the "first Jewish revolt" and it backfired,right?

So who is right,is it the apostles advising that they acknowledge that authority as by God or revolt and act as if that forth beast no longer has authority over them and it's time has ended?

P.S. maintain the distinction...

If Paul thought that it was time to revolt, it doesn't show anywhere. Instead the early church preached that the AofD was also the 'rebellion that desolates' of Dan 8, and would ruin the country. Rome was vigilant since the revolt of Judas the Galilean in 6 AD (during the census, Acts 5:37), about these zealot groups. Part of Pilate's 'I find no fault in him' about Jesus is that Jesus was changing the thinking of zealots, giving to Caesar what was Caesars. Many of the disciples had zealot upbringings.

 

[Interplanner]

i highlighted in red the part of your post I would like for you to clarify.

If it was Jesus that prophesied what the Romans would do in AD70, then how could you say that all prophesy for Israel was put on hold before AD70?
And I don't understand how you can say that Jesus (who is God) told this would happen by the Romans in AD70, but then say what the Romans did in AD70 was not by God.

It was announced before 70 as the final word. Lk 21 says the destruction would be the fulfillment of all wrath against the nation.

 

[Interplanner]

Tet wrote:
We now know that it is a spiritual kingdom, and that it is not on planet earth.




The two are not exclusive. Your word choice keeps dropping back into ambiguity.

 

[Tambora]

It was announced before 70 as the final word. Lk 21 says the destruction would be the fulfillment of all wrath against the nation.

My question was to Danoh to clarify his statement.

My understanding is that after God turned from Israel in His wrath in Acts 7, per 1 Thess. 2; for their continued rebellion against Him and His Christ, Acts 4; He placed His Prophesied actual outpouring of His wrath prior to His blessing them, on hold, Romans 9.

Israel was now alone without Him; headed down their own path; towards the 70AD they brought on themselves absent of His deliverance.

Thus, what the Lord had Prophesied would happen to them under the Romans had not been brought about by God; for He was out of their picture as a nation after Acts 7.

And He has been out of their picture to this very day, during this temporary, neither Jew, nor Gentile Mystery Age New Man, He began in, through, and with His Mystery revelation to a New Apostle - said Mystery's Age's distinct Apostle; the Apostle Paul, until it's fullness become in, Rom. 11.

i highlighted in red the part of your post I would like for you to clarify.

If it was Jesus that prophesied what the Romans would do in AD70, then how could you say that all prophesy for Israel was put on hold before AD70?
And I don't understand how you can say that Jesus (who is God) told this would happen by the Romans in AD70, but then say what the Romans did in AD70 was not by God.

 

[Interplanner]

My question was to Danoh to clarify his statement.

lol, that does not mean it was not on-topic.

 

[Wick Stick]

lol,I think I'll stick with the Acts 1:6-7 KJV scripture I put in paragraph two where the disciples ask Jesus when the kingdom would be restored and Jesus speaks of it as though they were still awaiting it in the future...

They were awaiting it. They are part of different ages. Perhaps you have noticed that Jewish history is cyclical?

The Jewish (Hasmonean) empire didn't take very long before it became corrupt, and then away they went... again.

 

[whitestone]

If Paul thought that it was time to revolt, it doesn't show anywhere. Instead the early church preached that the AofD was also the 'rebellion that desolates' of Dan 8, and would ruin the country. Rome was vigilant since the revolt of Judas the Galilean in 6 AD (during the census, Acts 5:37), about these zealot groups. Part of Pilate's 'I find no fault in him' about Jesus is that Jesus was changing the thinking of zealots, giving to Caesar what was Caesars. Many of the disciples had zealot upbringings.

lol,And see I had to go back my own self and re-read what I wrote and make sure I didn’t mistype my wording. I do sometimes and then edit it but I wasn’t inferring that Paul or the 12 were suggesting to revolt. I don’t think you would misquote me on purpose but that you misread what I wrote,if you re-read it you will see.

My point is/was the same as I have stated before about the mark in that neither those in the siege nor the Christians could have had that mark by obeying Rome or using their money because it had not yet divided into the ten toes/horns Revelation 17:12 KJV

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Ifthe 'rebellion that desolates' of Dan 8,

Made up.
The abomination of desolation, an image in the temple, the man of sin declares himself to be God.

 

[Right Divider]

Nothing in Acts 1:6-7 suggests it was going to be an earthly kingdom.

The Disciples thought it was going to be an earthly kingdom. However, we now know that it wasn't going to be an earthly kingdom.

We now know that it is a spiritual kingdom, and that it is not on planet earth.

Even though the Disciples were told it wasn't an earthly kingdom, they still thought it was going to be one.

(John 18:36) Jesus answered, "My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world."

It always amazes me how you Zionists/Futurists/Dispies can read the above verse, and still say there is going to be an earthly kingdom. Even the Apostle Paul makes it clear that it's the Jerusalem that is above, who is the mother of us all.

Yet, you guys still look to the Jerusalem in the Middle East.

What perverted "Bible" version did you get that quote from?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

What perverted "Bible" version did you get that quote from?

Yes, I wonder what the perversion does with this?

John 8:23 (KJV)

 

[Right Divider]

Yes, I wonder what the perversion does with this?

John 8:23 (KJV)

Perhaps Tet thinks that Jesus was "just a spiritual LORD" too.

 

[tetelestai]

Yes, I wonder what the perversion does with this?

John 8:23 (KJV)

You can use any version you want.....they all prove that the kingdom is not on planet earth.

 

[tetelestai]

What perverted "Bible" version did you get that quote from?

Again, every version proves you wrong.

(John 18:36 KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Jesus - "my kingdom is not of this world"

MAD - "Jesus' kingdom is of this world"

You guys need to quit following John Nelson Darby, and start believing what the Bible says.

 

[tetelestai]

My question was to Danoh to clarify his statement.

It's a good question.

However, since you're a Dispy/MADist, how do you on one hand claim Israel's prophetic clock stopped in Mid-Acts, and at the same time claim the events from 66AD - 70AD were fulfilled prophecies to Israel?

 

[Tambora]

It's a good question.

However, since you're a Dispy/MADist, how do you on one hand claim Israel's prophetic clock stopped in Mid-Acts, and at the same time claim the events from 66AD - 70AD were fulfilled prophecies to Israel?

I'm not as strict with the 'stopped clocked' as a few others might be.
Their wrath and restoration is on hold ---- I agree with that.
But I don't go as far to say that GOD is not dealing with, or watching, Israel at all during this time.

As Paul tell us, even though they are enemies of the gospel, they are still elected and beloved of GOD (Romans 11:28).
And their gifts and calling of GOD are a sure thing (Romans 11:29).

 

[Right Divider]

Again, every version proves you wrong.

(John 18:36 KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Jesus - "my kingdom is not of this world"

MAD - "Jesus' kingdom is of this world"

You guys need to quit following John Nelson Darby, and start believing what the Bible says.

I'd say that you Russell followers are the ones that have to PERVERT the scripture to get to mean something that it does not.

John 8:23 (KJV)​

(8:23) And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
​

The MEANING of the "not of this world" is not what hard to understand, unless you have an AGENDA (like you do).

You conveniently IGNORE part of what Jesus said in John 18

John 18:36 (KJV)​

(18:36) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. ​

Jesus said that it was not NOW from hence.... LATER it will be!

The "world" what Jesus was talking about was this CORRUPT and UNGODLY world.

When the LORD Jesus Christ returns (no, He was not the Roman army), He will establish His righteous kingdom on the earth.... Just like TONS of prophecy said that He would.

Isa 9:6-7 (KJV)​

(9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (9:7) Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. ​

You are so puffed up in your ignorance that you'll pervert any scripture to suit your ungodly needs.

 

[tetelestai]

I'd say that you Russell followers are the ones that have to PERVERT the scripture to get to mean something that it does not.

Nice try, but Preterism existed for hundreds, and hundreds of years before Russell was born.

Unlike your Dispensationalism, which didn't exist until Darby invented it in the year 1830.

The MEANING of the "not of this world" is not what hard to understand, unless you have an AGENDA (like you do).

It's very easy to understand. The kingdom is not of this world. The only one with an agenda, is you Darby Followers.

You conveniently IGNORE part of what Jesus said in John 18

Er, no.

John 18 proves your Zionism/Futurism wrong.

Jesus said that it was not NOW from hence.... LATER it will be!

Now you're making things up.

They all thought it was going to be on planet earth, "but now" it was not going to be on planet earth. It was going to be a heavenly kingdom. No one had ever thought it was going to be a heavenly kingdom up to that point.

The "world" what Jesus was talking about was this CORRUPT and UNGODLY world.

Yes, His kingdom is not of this corrupt and ungodly world.

When the LORD Jesus Christ returns (no, He was not the Roman army)

Jesus made it clear that His return would be judgment. The phrase "day of the Lord" was always judgment. That's what happened in 70AD.

He will establish His righteous kingdom on the earth.... Just like TONS of prophecy said that He would.

Nope.

The kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. It exists right now, and it's not on planet earth.

 

[Right Divider]

Nice try, but Preterism existed for hundreds, and hundreds of years before Russell was born.

Unlike your Dispensationalism, which didn't exist until Darby invented it in the year 1830.

It's very easy to understand. The kingdom is not of this world. The only one with an agenda, is you Darby Followers.

Er, no.

John 18 proves your Zionism/Futurism wrong.

Now you're making things up.

They all thought it was going to be on planet earth, "but now" it was not going to be on planet earth. It was going to be a heavenly kingdom. No one had ever thought it was going to be a heavenly kingdom up to that point.

Yes, His kingdom is not of this corrupt and ungodly world.

Jesus made it clear that His return would be judgment. The phrase "day of the Lord" was always judgment. That's what happened in 70AD.

Nope.

The kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. It exists right now, and it's not on planet earth.

Stick with your goofball ideas, you seem to be in love with them.

P.S. Nice that you ignore Isaiah. NOT nice!

 

[tetelestai]

P.S. Nice that you ignore Isaiah. NOT nice!

Every prophecy in Isaiah has been fulfilled. Some in the 6th century BC when the Jews were at war against Babylon, and others in the first century.

There are no more prophecies from Isaiah that have a future fulfillment.

That's the problem with you Darby Followers. You guys can't come up with anything in the NT that supports your Zionism/Futurism. So, you guys take OT prophecies that have been fulfilled, and apply them to the yet future.

 

[Right Divider]

Every prophecy in Isaiah has been fulfilled. Some in the 6th century BC when the Jews were at war against Babylon, and others in the first century.

Hogwash!

There are no more prophecies from Isaiah that have a future fulfillment.

Hogwash again!

That's the problem with you Darby Followers. You guys can't come up with anything in the NT that supports your Zionism/Futurism. So, you guys take OT prophecies that have been fulfilled, and apply them to the yet future.

You're so full of hot air that I would imagine that your feet don't even touch the ground.

No doubt that this was also already fulfilled in your fantasy world:

Joel 3:9-21 (KJV)​

(3:9) Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: (3:10) Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I [am] strong. (3:11) Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD. (3:12) Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. (3:13) Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness [is] great. (3:14) Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD [is] near in the valley of decision. (3:15) The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. (3:16) The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD [will be] the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. (3:17) So shall ye know that I [am] the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. (3:18) And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim. (3:19) Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence [against] the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land. (3:20) But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation. (3:21) For I will cleanse their blood [that] I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

​

Don't tell me let me guess..... the LORD dwelleth in "spiritual Zion".