ECT If MAD is False Why Did Paul Make the Distinction in Romans 4:16?

[Danoh]

Throughout the Scripture; the actual point is that Light continually rejected...hardens the heart.

 

[Interplanner]

Paul is quoting an old testament prophecy of when God would cut off and harden some Jews.

Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.

Luke 8:10 He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Romans 11:8 as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."

Matthew 13:14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

Mark 4:12 so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"

Mark 8:17And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18"HAVING EYES, DO YOU NOT SEE? AND HAVING EARS, DO YOU NOT HEAR? And do you not remember,


So why did God cut off and harden some Jews?
God did that because He was making a new covenant.
The old covenant did not require faith, it required works for the people to clean themselves.
God did not like those Jews who would sin, give a sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins.
God said there were be a new covenant based on faith.
Some Jews had faith and some did not.
Those Jews who had faith were called the lost sheep of Israel.
Those were the Jews who already belonged to God by faith.


Of course not every single Jew rejected Jesus, for Paul says so himself:

Romans 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy.

See, Paul is merely showing that God has not cut off and hardened the whole nation of Israel forever, without any chance of salvation.
It must have seemed as if God cut off and hardened a whole ethnicity forever.


Again; the scripture is not saying every single Jew will be saved one day. The scripture is saying all Jews are not cut off forever.
The Jews have just as much a chance to get saved as any other nationality



Paul is again just explaining that Jews are not cut off forever, and if they do NOT PERSIST in UNBELIEF, they can be grafted back in.

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Well done, GT!

 

[God's Truth]

Well done, GT!

Thank you, IP, I am glad that someone appreciated all the time and effort I put in to defend the fact that there is only one good news and gospel.

Thanks again.

 

[Danoh]

Thank you, IP, I am glad that someone appreciated all the time and effort I put in to defend the fact that there is only one good news and gospel.

Thanks again.

The Lord's appreciation should be more than enough.

Not that you have it; as you preach a false "gospel" of works for salvation, and works towards the maintenance of one's salvation.

Yours is "another gospel; which is not another" at all.

Instead of the Romans Road, yours is the Gerbil's endless treadmill of self-effort.

One wonders if you ever had it right to begin with.

You poor pathethetic wretch of an individual ever bogged down in the religion that is the flesh; you will only take offence to this truth.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

:doh:

 

[God's Truth]

The Lord's appreciation should be more than enough.

How ignorant of you to suggest it is wrong to thank each other.

Ephesians 1:16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers.

Not that you have it; as you preach a false "gospel" of works for salvation, and works towards the maintenance of one's salvation.

It is not a false gospel to preach obedience to God. Only the devil would condemn me for preaching obedience.

Yours is "another gospel; which is not another" at all.

hahahaha Jesus preaches to obey him. Are you saying what Jesus taught is no gospel at all? LOL

Instead of the Romans Road, yours is the Gerbil's endless treadmill of self-effort.

How do you ever get that obeying God's powerful WORD is as that?

One wonders if you ever had it right to begin with.

You poor pathethetic wretch of an individual ever bogged down in the religion that is the flesh; you will only take offence to this truth.

You are a foul mouthed person who has no understanding of God.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

:doh:

Jesus didn't preach circumcision in the flesh.

Paul called the Galatians foolish because they were talked into the old law of circumcision.

You are as Peter says in 2 Peter 3:16, and James 2:20.

You are untaught, unstable, foolish, and a distorter of the scriptures.

After Peter and James say that about you, they both warn that we are to obey.

 

[Interplanner]

keep it above personal remarks; just present good textual reasons, please

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

keep it above personal remarks; just present good textual reasons, please

The irony...

 

[Lighthouse]

You really don't see it do you?

See what?

It is good if anyone get jealous of your relationship with God and bring to the observer a striving for the same.

And what does this have to do with the discussion?

By hearing from the apostles that non-Jews were excelling in the mission work that was intended for them. See the middle of Rom 10. Paul then tried to further provoke them to work in the mission in ch 11. Because they do have some advantages by way of background that would make them effective communicators of the Gospel.

I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
-Romans 11:11

If salvation was supposed to come to the Gentiles anyway how would this make Israel jealous? Is it the way it happened? And if so, what about the way it happened was the issue?

DanP wrote:
Isarel has a VAIL ovever there heart and the Law of Moses was set aside in Acts 28:28 !!


???

*veil

Thank you, IP, I am glad that someone appreciated all the time and effort I put in to defend the fact that there is only one good news and gospel.

Thanks again.

The fact you believe there was never any good news prior to the gospel we know today tells us all we need to know about you.

 

[Interplanner]

See what?


And what does this have to do with the discussion?


I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
-Romans 11:11

If salvation was supposed to come to the Gentiles anyway how would this make Israel jealous? Is it the way it happened? And if so, what about the way it happened was the issue?


*veil



The fact you believe there was never any good news prior to the gospel we know today tells us all we need to know about you.

re 'if salvation was supposed to come to the Gentiles anyway.'
It was. 'In your Seed (one person) all the nations of the earth will be blessed' is the Gospel announced in advance, says Gal 3. When Israel went through the experience of seeing this happen, it did provoke some of them. Not enough.

 

[God's Truth]

See what?

And what does this have to do with the discussion?

The Jews did the purification works.

The purification works were required to belong to God.

God walked among the Jews, and they had the temple where God's Spirit was.

The old law was not based on faith.

God did not like it that the people could sin, give a sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins.

When the time for the New Covenant was to come, God cut off all faithless Jews.

The New Covenant was based on faith.

The Jews who had faith, they remained God's; but they now had to go through Jesus to remain God's.

The Jews who did not have faith, they were cut off.

I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
-Romans 11:11

If salvation was supposed to come to the Gentiles anyway how would this make Israel jealous? Is it the way it happened? And if so, what about the way it happened was the issue?

It could make the cut off Jews jealous and turn to have faith in Jesus and be saved.

The fact you believe there was never any good news prior to the gospel we know today tells us all we need to know about you.

Jesus is the good news. You make Paul the good news, and that is not right.

 

[God's Truth]

re 'if salvation was supposed to come to the Gentiles anyway.'
It was. 'In your Seed (one person) all the nations of the earth will be blessed' is the Gospel announced in advance, says Gal 3. When Israel went through the experience of seeing this happen, it did provoke some of them. Not enough.

No. Jesus came first for those who were already God's. The rest of the Jews were cut off. Those cut off Jews didn't believe in Jesus and they didn't want to stop cleaning themselves.

 

[Interplanner]

No. Jesus came first for those who were already God's. The rest of the Jews were cut off. Those cut off Jews didn't believe in Jesus and they didn't want to stop cleaning themselves.

The Gentiles were supposed to be reached and blessed anyway. that is the topic above.

 

[God's Truth]

The Gentiles were supposed to be reached and blessed anyway. that is the topic above.

I can still correct you when I see error.

You said, "...it did provoke some of them. Not enough."

The Jews who believed in Jesus when he walked the earth, they were already saved.

 

[Interplanner]

I can still correct you when I see error.

You said, "...it did provoke some of them. Not enough."

The Jews who believed in Jesus when he walked the earth, they were already saved.

Not Paul.

 

[Danoh]

Not Paul.

Get it through your head - she can correct you when she sees error.

But you cannot correct her when ever you see error; that will only offend her.

She is that dense - that she cannot see that hers is a double-standard.

The only thing the Hybrids ("so called" MADS on here) have over her in this is that they do appear to allow some correction from one another: though obviously to a very limited degree, as very fragile egos are ever a just as obvious issue :chuckle:

 

[God's Truth]

Not Paul.

No kidding not Paul. Why would you say that? Paul was one of the cut off Jews.

 

[God's Truth]

Get it through your head - she can correct you when she sees error.

But you cannot correct her when ever you see error; that will only offend her.

She is that dense - that she cannot see that hers is a double-standard.

The only thing the Hybrids ("so called" MADS on here) have over her in this is that they do appear to allow some correction from one another: though obviously to a very limited degree, as very fragile egos are ever a just as obvious issue :chuckle:

Here Interplanner, where is your rebuke to this foul mouthed instigator?

 

[Danoh]

Here Interplanner, where is your rebuke to this foul mouthed instigator?

Only because you are not the one saying that about anyone other than you.

And get a clue; none of that was foul-mouthed.

 

[God's Truth]

Only because you are not the one saying that about anyone other than you.

And get a clue; none of that was foul-mouthed.

What don't you get about no one caring what you think of them personally and that you should keep your worthless opinions about others to yourself?

 

[Danoh]

What don't you get about no one caring what you think of them personally and that you should keep your worthless opinions about others to yourself?

What don't I get about that?

That you do care about such attention, lol

You keep proving just that :chuckle:

Try a little Romans 5:8 - quit adding your foolish works to His Cross and you won't care about what anyone thinks about you, one way or the other; beyond its' impact as a witness of Christ to others.