Oh, your now a regular Mr. Kotter, ain't ya? Why don't you put up a sign on the back of your students, saying, "Vinnie does not dig chicks-call me....!" I bet all the Mary Graces would get a kick out of that, squirt!
ECT If MAD is False Why Did Paul Make the Distinction in Romans 4:16?
- Thread starter Lighthouse
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Oh, your now a regular Mr. Kotter, ain't ya? Why don't you put up a sign on the back of your students, saying, "Vinnie does not dig chicks-call me....!" I bet all the Mary Graces would get a kick out of that, squirt!
turbosixx
New member
I'm not opposed to rethinking my understanding. Currently, I understand the kingdom and the church to be the same thing so Christ saying the kingdom was at hand makes sense to me and he uses it interchangeably with church. Here he tells Peter he's going to build his church and give him the keys to the kingdom.
Matt. 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
On Pentecost, I see Peter using those keys with 3,000 being admitted.
Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
I see Paul proclaiming the kingdom to Christians. If it's not the church, then what is he proclaiming?
Acts 20:25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.
Right Divider
Body part
That's good; you should.
I think that one of your primary problems is that you have cultural modern "churchianity" understanding of what the word church means. Modern religion (what I continue to call churchianity) has created these "new" meanings for "church" and "gospel", etc. whereby there can only be one of each. That's simply wrong, silly and unbiblical.
The kingdom of heaven will be the Lord Jesus Christ's righteous ruling on the earth when he establishes His kingdom as both prophecy and He said.
Pentecost was a lawfully required feast for Israel. Everything that happened that day was described by the prophets of Israel (Jesus was also one of those prophets). It was NOT the beginning of something new, as in the church which is His body.
Peter quoted Joel's passage about what would come to pass "in the last days", not the first days.
You have to understand what I've said a few times before:
- Paul confirmed ALL the revelation that came before, including the kingdom of prophecy.
- Paul received ADDITIONAL information directly from the risen and ascended Lord Jesus Christ.
- This NEW revelation does not contradict what came before; though some does supersede it for a time.
- Sometimes God changes His instruction to mankind; that's His sovereign choice.
- God told Adam to tend the garden; later God told Adam to get out of the garden and don't come back.
Like many, you simply begin by believing that there cannot be a difference. Then you force anything even remotely similar to be the same. Then you ignore things that differ.
turbosixx
New member
If Paul was proclaiming the kingdom to the church in person, wouldn't it be important to the church today as well?
So can you show me where in scripture you see Paul proclaiming the kingdom.
Interplanner
Well-known member
You're kidding, right? Is this before or after you've done a basic e.search with, for ex., Biblegateway?
turbosixx
New member
What are you talking about?
Right Divider
Body part
No, you're confusing things again.
Paul preached different message to different people. So the Jews that had rejected Christ, he preached Christ as the Son of God and their Messiah/King. It's pretty tough to preach the kingdom of heaven when they were rejecting their King.
I've shown you so many cases where the language used by Paul is SO different that than the kingdom/priesthood/sheep/etc/etc/etc of what came before.
But you just keep ignoring it and going back to the same old "churchianity" that we see so popular today.
Is it so surprising that Paul would preach the kingdom of God in a synagogue?
Acts 19:8 (AKJV/PCE)
(19:8) And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Search the scripture for the mystery of Christ. Only Paul mentions it. Why?
Same with the gospel of the grace of God. Why?
Seriously turbosixx, I appreciate that you've expressed openness to learning... but it seems like you just won't really accept anything but the status quo. Would it really be that surprising that most of Christianity is wrong when most of Israel was as well?
Interplanner
Well-known member
Almost every contention here is mistaken. he didn't preach different messages to different people; he forbade that.
You said he didn't refer to the kingdom but there he is doing it in summary of Acts 19.
D'ism and 2P2P is far and away the most popular view today. I don't know of any Bible-evangelical pastor who doesn't try to 'stand with (modern) Israel' as though it had PROPHETIC significance. (It's fine if they simply mean non-Islamic, non-shari'a government). And not only is 2P2P the most popular, it is very similar to Judaism of Christ's time--in actual doctrine.
Half a point about the mystery because Jesus doesn't tie it down as completely as Eph 3:6 but most people conclude that the kingdom is in a mystery FORM, and that is what is different--it is 'here' but is not trying to replace the nation or be in friction with Rome. The zealots and their kingdom was!
There is no mystery that God's mission was coming and going to the nations and including the nations as recipients of Israel's blessings. The mystery in Eph 3:6 is that this would be apart from the law. That it would happen 'through the Gospel.'
The grace of God issue is too ignorant to address for the 1000th time.
Interplanner
Well-known member
You just get on a Bible online and put in your search words. Paul says many present-tense, active things about the kingdom.
Right Divider
Body part
My point, poor dingleberry, is that Paul did not START with the new revelation to those in a synagogue. Until they would believe that Jesus was the Christ, they could NOT move on to anything else.
I did not say that. Make sure, as you've been asked MANY TIMES to QUOTE it instead of making an accusation.
More nonsense from an opinionated boob.
More VanderLann?
The NEW COVENANT between God and Israel still have the law written in their hearts. THEY have some laws that God said were perpetual.
Why is there not a single instance in the scripture of Jesus using the word GRACE during His earthly ministry to Israel?
Interplanner
Well-known member
RD wrote:
Paul did not START with the new revelation to those in a synagogue.
See Acts 13. You're just theory and nonsense.
Paul did not START with the new revelation to those in a synagogue.
See Acts 13. You're just theory and nonsense.
Interplanner
Well-known member
RD wrote:
It's pretty tough to preach the kingdom of heaven when they were rejecting their King.
That was about Paul, and Acts 19 says he was preaching the kingdom as usual. You think it is a Davidic theocracy, but it was not. It was moving forward all over the earth.
You are mostly theory and nonsense.
It's pretty tough to preach the kingdom of heaven when they were rejecting their King.
That was about Paul, and Acts 19 says he was preaching the kingdom as usual. You think it is a Davidic theocracy, but it was not. It was moving forward all over the earth.
You are mostly theory and nonsense.
Interplanner
Well-known member
RD,
what is nonsense about the place and profile of D'ism today? It is on all the radio and TV. it is almost given that if a church is evangelical--Bible, you have to stand with modern Israel.
I mentioned one exception to this last week. I hear hours of evangelical--Bible radio every week. Many of the most popular, and that is the operative word here.
what is nonsense about the place and profile of D'ism today? It is on all the radio and TV. it is almost given that if a church is evangelical--Bible, you have to stand with modern Israel.
I mentioned one exception to this last week. I hear hours of evangelical--Bible radio every week. Many of the most popular, and that is the operative word here.
Interplanner
Well-known member
RD,
re the form of the kingdom. Show me where Jesus colluded with zealots. Show me where he had violent friction with the Roman admin. The country was full of people who thought there was going to be a supernatural outbreak of purging against Rome and then a Davidic theocratic kingdom.
The funny thing is this is always mentioned as a single line in popular belief about those times--and then it disappears from all thinking and practical reality.
re the form of the kingdom. Show me where Jesus colluded with zealots. Show me where he had violent friction with the Roman admin. The country was full of people who thought there was going to be a supernatural outbreak of purging against Rome and then a Davidic theocratic kingdom.
The funny thing is this is always mentioned as a single line in popular belief about those times--and then it disappears from all thinking and practical reality.
Interplanner
Well-known member
RD,
re New Covenant.
You are totally mistaken about who is and benefits from the new covenant as mentioned by Christ, by 2 Cor 3-5 and by Hebrews.
You are too busy with 2P2P theories.
re New Covenant.
You are totally mistaken about who is and benefits from the new covenant as mentioned by Christ, by 2 Cor 3-5 and by Hebrews.
You are too busy with 2P2P theories.
Interplanner
Well-known member
RD
re grace
Jn 1
'freely you have received, freely give'
'He who loves much has been forgiven much'
Watch out for Pharisee literalism, it will delude you.
re grace
Jn 1
'freely you have received, freely give'
'He who loves much has been forgiven much'
Watch out for Pharisee literalism, it will delude you.
Right Divider
Body part
Paul preached Israel's God and history. What don't you get?
Acts 13:17 (AKJV/PCE)
(13:17) The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it.
(13:17) The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it.
Acts 13:23 (AKJV/PCE)
(13:23) Of this man's seed hath God according to [his] promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Acts 13:32-33 (AKJV/PCE)
(13:32) And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, (13:33) God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Right Divider
Body part
You are TOTALLY theory and nonsense.
Right Divider
Body part
Those folks are NOT MAD, or they would understand that modern day Israel is NOT the one that God will save per scripture.
You liars always try to use that "quilt by false association" trick. Did your daddy, the devil, teach you that?
Right Divider
Body part
Thy kingdom come... on earth.... look it up.