ECT If MAD is False What Does Hebrews 6:4-6 Mean for Us?

[marhig]

Hi and KIF you read 1 Cor 5:12 and 13 and you say you understand , good for you !!

dan p

Hi, I've just read the whole chapter, and I believe that what I have written is right.

How do you see those verses? What do you believe that the judgement mentioned in those verses means? Thanks

 

[DAN P]

Hi, I've just read the whole chapter, and I believe that what I have written is right.

How do you see those verses? What do you believe that the judgement mentioned in those verses means? Thanks

Hi and I have to go and will reply Tuesday !!

dan p

 

[marhig]

Hi and I have to go and will reply Tuesday !!

dan p

Ok thanks

 

[Right Divider]

Here is the simplicity and the core teaching of the gospel

Matthew 22

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

That's a wonderful thing and I believe it. But it's NOT the gospel of the grace of God.

 

[Right Divider]

I don't believe that we should judge anyone, meaning we can't condemn others and decide who is going to heaven or hell as only God knows the heart.

By the way, I do believe Paul. He was a strong apostle of God. I just don't listen to Paul only and no one else in the Bible.

Matthew 7

Judge not, that ye be not judged.*For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Jesus most certainly told them to judge:

John 7:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(7:24) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.​

 

[marhig]

That's a wonderful thing and I believe it. But it's NOT the gospel of the grace of God.

Jesus taught love, and love is the core of the gospel. And to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength and our neighbour a ourself is at the core of the teachings of Jesus. And he didn't just preach it he lived it out, putting God first and others before himself, not living after his will, but after Gods will. He came as a servant and bore witness the truth bringing many back to God.

If Jesus hadn't of loved God first and loved his neighbour himself, there would be no gospel.

I've never been to a church service, we have house meetings. But i would have thought that all churches would have love as the core of the gospel especially to love God with our all and to love our neighbour as ourselves and to turn from sin. If we are doing this we are truly following Jesus. Love is certainly the core of our teachings. Especially putting God before everything else in our lives.

What is the core of your gospel?

 

[marhig]

Jesus most certainly told them to judge:

John 7:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(7:24) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.​

And what do you believe righteous judgment is?

 

[Right Divider]

Jesus taught love, and love is the core of the gospel. And to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength and our neighbour a ourself is at the core of the teachings of Jesus. And he didn't just preach it he lived it out, putting God first and others before himself, not living after his will, but after Gods will. He came as a servant and bore witness the truth bringing many back to God.

If Jesus hadn't of loved God first and loved his neighbour himself, there would be no gospel.

I've never been to a church service, we have house meetings. But i would have thought that all churches would have love as the core of the gospel especially to love God with our all and to love our neighbour as ourselves and to turn from sin. If we are doing this we are truly following Jesus. Love is certainly the core of our teachings. Especially putting God before everything else in our lives.

Those are beautiful sentiments, but they are not the gospel of the kingdom or the gospel of the grace of God.

What is the core of your gospel?

I don't have have a gospel. I just believe the one that God gave to and through Paul.

That Christ died for my sins and was raised again for my justification.

The gospel of the kingdom was that the kingdom was at hand. A wonderful gospel too, but not what saves anyone today.

 

[Right Divider]

And what do you believe righteous judgment is?

In that case it had to do with properly judging according to the law.

 

[themuzicman]

:chuckle:

Same ole pompous Muz.

You shouldn't have butted in when I asked someone else about Hebrews 3.

Same 'ole light weight S2P. Can't hang in a real debate.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Same 'ole light weight S2P. Can't hang in a real debate.

You jumped in midstream into another argument, with someone else, and tried to make me look stupid.
And, YOU didn't realize the side topic with him was something other than Hebrews 6.

Same ole Muz, still overcompensating for the fragile ego.

 

[marhig]

Those are beautiful sentiments, but they are not the gospel of the kingdom or the gospel of the grace of God.


I don't have have a gospel. I just believe the one that God gave to and through Paul.

That Christ died for my sins and was raised again for my justification.

The gospel of the kingdom was that the kingdom was at hand. A wonderful gospel too, but not what saves anyone today.

Yes you do have a very different gospel to me. Jesus dying on a wooden cross to save us certainly isn't the core teachings of the gospel, love is. Jesus never taught that about the cross once, nor did his apostles. If that was the truth then why didn't he die on the cross to save the jews too and why didn't he preach it to them? Yet Jesus never mentions it. And if Jesus dying on the cross is not for the jews only the gentiles, then how are the jews saved considering Jesus never preached anything about dying on a cross to save anyone?

We are saved through faith, by the grace of God. And we are forgiven of our past sins once we repent. We are then to go and turn from sin, deny ourselves and bare our cross and follow Jesus. That's what Jesus taught in the gospel, Paul taught that we are saved through faith by the grace of God too.

I can't see anywhere in the Bible where it says that are saved by the death of Jesus on the wooden cross.

Jesus said that the reason he came into this world was to bare witness to the truth. He came as a living sacrifice, he was dead to his fleshly life and the world, it had nothing in him. He bore his cross and suffered to bring the gospel of salvation, and those who believe on his word are saved, not by his death on the cross! Nor by believing in a trinity but by believing in Jesus, repenting, having faith and being obedient to God.

I believe in the gospel preached in the Bible!

 

[marhig]

In that case it had to do with properly judging according to the law.

Well according to many here the laws are of non effect to them, so then they shouldn't judge?

 

[Lighthouse]

So what about everyone else that was born before Jesus? Are they all unsaved too?

Thy were not yet saved. Thy went to Abraham's Bosom, aka Paradise, when the died in order to wait upon the Lord for salvation.

Ah well at least you don't believe in OSAS and predestination that's good! And yes I am a dunce, without God I'm nothing!

Actually I do believe in eternal security. Your being a dunce has shown itself in your inability to read what I posted.

No I don't, I totally believe him, he said he was the son of God, and I believe his words

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

And you still deny He is God incarnate; the uncreated Creator. John 1:1-14, for starters.

And where does it say there that Jesus died on the natural cross to save us? It doesn't!

:AMR:

Who said it did?

And yes, Jesus nor any of the other apostles taught that he died on the cross to save us either, they all taught that faith saves, including Paul. Not faith in the cross, but faith in God and Jesus. And if we have faith then we'll truly follow him and do the works!

So His death for our sins means nothing?

What does John 3:16-18 mean to you?

I haven't seen anywhere in the Bible that I must have faith in the death of Jesus on the cross. Only that I'm saved through faith by the grace of God. And that I'm saved by the life of Jesus, which is the resurrection of Christ within. Without the life of Christ within by the spirit. We're dead in our sins, whatever we believe. And you'll know who has the spirit as they will be living it out and overcoming as Jesus did himself, and he will give us the strength to overcome to when we have faith and follow him!

Without His death there is no resurrection, you imbecile.

It seems strange that all the apostles and Jesus left out such an important belief for salvation? Surely if Jesus died on the cross to save us, wouldn't he have preached that? Or sent his apostles to do so? They would all have been preaching it over and over.

Actually Jesus didn't tell anyone about His death, directly, before the fact [except for the 12, who didn't understand]. Anyone else He told it was always in a parable like manner. And none of them understood it, either.

And the issue here is the difference between what Paul preached and what the 12 preached, and what Jesus preached. So if Jesus and the 12 didn't preach it but Paul did then the only ones with an issue that needs resolved is the anti-MAD camp.

But instead they all preached that we are saved through faith. And without the grace of God we have no hope!

The similarities don't mean there are no differences.

Oh and you asked haven't I already overcome?

Actually I asked about Him overcoming.

No not entirely, my old life is gone, and my new life in God has begun, and I have overcome many things through Christ. But, I still have to overcome every day. And I'm tried and tested always. And i believe that I can still fall if I go and lust after the flesh again. I'm being saved by Gods grace.

If we have already overcome completely, then Paul wouldn't have needed to die daily. And we wouldn't have to partake in the sufferings Christ. Christ through the spirit, is helping me to overcome day by day!

Christ has overcome and you act as though He did not, which is why you see the world through the lens of not having overcome. You don't believe He did, so you don't see it. The truth shall set you free.

Are you no longer a slave to sin? Are you dead to sin? Are you free from sin? Are you a slave to righteousness?

Does the Bible say you are or does it say you will be someday?

What's there to explain? The only term in question is "fallen away", which, in context would refer to returning to one's previous life apart from Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, rejecting the faith one has embraced.

And can one return to Christ and thereby salvation if they have fallen away?

 

[marhig]

Thy were not yet saved. Thy went to Abraham's Bosom, aka Paradise, when the died in order to wait upon the Lord for salvation.

Jesus went to heaven to be at the right hand of God, and the thief went to heaven with him.

And you still deny He is God incarnate; the uncreated Creator. John 1:1-14, for starters.

I know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. I believe that Jesus is the son of God and the the father is God, just as it says in the Bible.

So His death for our sins means nothing?

Show me where it says that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins, and Jesus certainly didn't teach it. Jesus dying on the cross isn't the core teaching of gospel, love is.

What does John 3:16-18 mean to you?

John 3:16-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


It says nothing here about believing in the cross, but believing in Jesus Christ the son of God, and through him we might be saved and have everlasting life.

By the way, it also says for God so loved the world that gave his only begotten son. Not that Jesus was God and that he came into the world.

Without His death there is no resurrection, you imbecile.

John the Baptist was raised within his own lifetime, before Jesus died! And as usual you have to resort to personal insults that's a shame really.

And the resurrection didn't happen because of the death of Jesus, but because he overcame Satan.

Actually Jesus didn't tell anyone about His death, directly, before the fact [except for the 12, who didn't understand]. Anyone else He told it was always in a parable like manner. And none of them understood it, either.

Jesus told no one that his death on the cross was to save them. I'm fact he told those that tried to kill him that they were doing the works of their father the devil! And he told Pilate that what they were doing to him was a sin, and that the pharasees did the greater sin by handing him over to be crucified!

Christ has overcome and you act as though He did not, which is why you see the world through the lens of not having overcome. You don't believe He did, so you don't see it. The truth shall set you free.

I never said once that Jesus didn't overcome, he most certainly did. And we have overcome too through him!

Are you no longer a slave to sin? Are you dead to sin? Are you free from sin? Are you a slave to righteousness?

My old life is dead and hidden in Christ, I'm a totally different person to what I was, and the holy spirit is helping me to turn from sin everyday. But I can still fall away if I put the lusts of my flesh before God.

And can one return to Christ and thereby salvation if they have fallen away?

Only God knows who can and who can't, only he knows the heart

 

[themuzicman]

And can one return to Christ and thereby salvation if they have fallen away?

Define the word "impossible."

 

[Right Divider]

Yes you do have a very different gospel to me. Jesus dying on a wooden cross to save us certainly isn't the core teachings of the gospel, love is. Jesus never taught that about the cross once, nor did his apostles.

That's because you reject the Lord Jesus Christ's CONTINUED teaching from HEAVEN. You think that His only contact with the world was in His physical body. The entire Word of God is His and you only like the "red letters".

If that was the truth then why didn't he die on the cross to save the jews too and why didn't he preach it to them? Yet Jesus never mentions it. And if Jesus dying on the cross is not for the jews only the gentiles, then how are the jews saved considering Jesus never preached anything about dying on a cross to save anyone?

We are saved through faith, by the grace of God. And we are forgiven of our past sins once we repent.

You don't repent of ALL of your past sins. You only think that you do.

We are then to go and turn from sin, deny ourselves and bare our cross and follow Jesus. That's what Jesus taught in the gospel, Paul taught that we are saved through faith by the grace of God too.

I can't see anywhere in the Bible where it says that are saved by the death of Jesus on the wooden cross.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins and we need to place our faith in Him FOR THAT. You have a self-centered "look at me repent" religion.

Said that the reason he came into this world was to bare witness to the truth. He came as a living sacrifice, he was dead to his fleshly life and the world, it had nothing in him. He bore his cross and suffered to bring the gospel of salvation, and those who believe on his word are saved, not by his death on the cross! Nor by believing in a trinity but by believing in Jesus, repenting, having faith and being obedient to God.

Well you're certainly showing your true colored now. JW?

I believe in the gospel preached in the Bible!

No, sadly you don't.

 

[Right Divider]

Well according to many here the laws are of non effect to them, so then they shouldn't judge?

Is that what the door-to-door salesmen told you?

 

[marhig]

That's because you reject the Lord Jesus Christ's CONTINUED teaching from HEAVEN. You think that His only contact with the world was in His physical body. The entire Word of God is His and you only like the "red letters".

Well I certainly don't believe in that way

I believe that if we don't have the Christ manifest within our hearts through the holy spirit, then we are dead in our sins. He's not far away on a cloud in the sky, he is in the heart of all those who truly belong to him.

You don't repent of ALL of your past sins. You only think that you do.

Blimey, you know me very was well all of a sudden! How do you know what I do? Who made you my judge? If we are still committing the sin, then haven't truly repented. Only God knows the heart!

The Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins and we need to place our faith in Him FOR THAT. You have a self-centered "look at me repent" religion.

More like the lord Jesus came as a living sacrifice to bare witness the truth and bring us the gospel of reconciliation with the hope of bringing us back to God through faith and by Gods grace.

You have no idea what I'm like, you don't know my life. And those who truly belong Christ don't want anyone to look at them as you put it, they should be dead and their life hidden in Christ and they will want to glorify God and Christ, not themselves, and it's Christ that should be seen in them and through them, not their old fleshly life that loves self praise. Self praise went out the window for me a long time ago. Thank God!

Well you're certainly showing your true colored now. JW?

I've never ever been to a jw church, and I have no idea what they teach, we have house meetings.

No, sadly you don't.

I most definitely do, and how do I know? Because the gospel I believe in turns us from sin. And through Christ I'm overcoming my sins. So I know it's the truth.

 

[dodge]

Well I certainly don't believe in that way

I believe that if we don't have the Christ manifest within our hearts through the holy spirit, then we are dead in our sins. He's not far away on a cloud in the sky, he is in the heart of all those who truly belong to him.




Blimey, you know me very was well all of a sudden! How do you know what I do? Who made you my judge? If we are still committing the sin, then haven't truly repented. Only God knows the heart!




More like the lord Jesus came as a living sacrifice to bare witness the truth and bring us the gospel of reconciliation with the hope of bringing us back to God through faith and by Gods grace.

You have no idea what I'm like, you don't know my life. And those who truly belong Christ don't want anyone to look at them as you put it, they should be dead and their life hidden in Christ and they will want to glorify God and Christ, not themselves, and it's Christ that should be seen in them and through them, not their old fleshly life that loves self praise. Self praise went out the window for me a long time ago. Thank God!




I've never ever been to a jw church, and I have no idea what they teach, we have house meetings.




I most definitely do, and how do I know? Because the gospel I believe in turns us from sin. And through Christ I'm overcoming my sins. So I know it's the truth.

YOU must take wrong divider and what he/she says with a grain of salt as they have no clue what the gospel is. For them it is not a personal relationship with Jesus and the leadership of the Holy Spirit it is what they have ( Madist ) have been wrongly told by other Madist about the Gospel that matters most to them.

If you try to lead them to Jesus, in your conversation, they immediately tell you you are wrong and insert the Apostle Paul in the conversation. Mind you the Apostle Paul taught and lived the truth but to Madist it is all about Paul and very little to nothing about Jesus or the Holy Spirit.