I will not vote for trump

[ok doser]

You wunnerful capitalists poured money into every other combatant especially Germany through the Marshall plan but wouldn't give our Labour government a dime.

no, not a dime

33 billion dimes

The most well-known, and largest, United States aid program in the immediate post-war years was the European Recovery Program (ERP). More often known as the Marshall Plan, it was the creation of George Kennan, William Clayton, and others at the U.S. State Department under Secretary of State George Marshall. Publicly suggested by Marshall in June 1947, and put into action about a year later, the Plan was essentially an extension of the Greece–Turkey aid strategy to the rest of Europe. The U.S. administration considered the stability of the existing governments in Western Europe vital to its own interests. On 3 April 1948, President Truman signed the Economic Cooperation Act, establishing the Economic Cooperation Administration (ECA) to administer the program, and actual disbursements got underway. The focus was on promoting production, stabilizing currencies, and promoting international trade. To be eligible for the aid, a country had to sign an agreement with the United States government committing itself to the Act's purposes. The Communist countries were formally invited to participate in the Plan although Secretary Marshall thought it unlikely that they would accept and they did in fact decline the aid. Also in 1948, the United States and the recipient countries created the Organisation for European Economic Cooperation (OEEC – it became the OECD in 1961) to coordinate the use of the aid. A large portion of the money given was used to purchase goods from the United States, and the ships used to transport the goods had to be of U.S. nationality. Until after the Korean War, military aid was not part of the plan.[18] The Marshall Plan ended in December 1951 and its functions were transferred to the Mutual Security Administration.[19] The United States government gave out about $12.5 billion under the Plan during its three-and-a-half year existence. The countries receiving the most were Great Britain ($3.3 billion), France ($2.3 billion) and West Germany ($1.4 billion).[20]

and that's on top of the 310 billion dimes we loaned the commonwealth through lend-lease during the war

And as a matter of historical fact Russia did more to beat the Germans than America

with $11 billion in aid from the US

 

[Clete]

Chysostom is now on my ignore list. If anyone else holds a position similar to his, feel free to respond to the following as though it were addressed to you....




You will not vote for Donald Trump and it won't make one damn bit of difference, except that it will help Hillary Clinton win.

You DO NOT live in a Christian society. You live in a totally secular society with an entirely secular government that is more corrupt than not.
Everyone wants to pretend that their vote is some moral action. It isn't. If you want to talk morality, you aught not have the right to vote at all! God never endorsed a democratic form or even a representative form of government where people elect their rulers. Authority to rule is not rightly derived from the consent of the people, its delegated by God Himself. So voting in this election is not a question of Christian morality but one of wisdom. You need to learn how to play things smart and stop getting bulldozed into meaninglessness by conventional wisdom. Your moral duty, if you have one at all in this context, is to cast your vote for the MOST conservative (i.e. just) person who can win and thus bolster the morally preservative effect that the least evil person will have on our society in contrast to the more corrosive effect the worse of two evils would be.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend!

If you either vote for some a candidate that cannot win or refuse to vote at all, you become Hillary Clinton's friend.

That was proven without possible refutation in both 2004 and 2008! Those who voted for some hopeless third party or independent candidate or stayed home and didn't vote at all, gave Barrack Obama the White House and by extension gave all of us Obama Care and everything else that makes up the disaster the last eight years have been.

You need to wake up and realize where you are and just what sort of sociopolitical situation you're actually in because if a Democrat wins this election, this country, as you've known it, is finished! And it will stay finished probably forever but for at least the rest of your natural life. If you want to live out your days and you want your kids to at least have a chance of living out their days with at least a modicum of freedom, you damn well better do whatever you can do to prevent Hillary Clinton from getting within a mile of the Oval Office. And if that means holding your nose and pulling the lever for Donald Trump or Daffy Duck or whoever is the Republican nominee, so be it!

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Chysostom is now on my ignore list. If anyone else holds a position similar to his, feel free to respond to the following as though it were addressed to you....




You will not vote for Donald Trump and it won't make one damn bit of difference, except that it will help Hillary Clinton win.

You DO NOT live in a Christian society. You live in a totally secular society with an entirely secular government that is more corrupt than not.
Everyone wants to pretend that their vote is some moral action. It isn't. If you want to talk morality, you aught not have the right to vote at all! God never endorsed a democratic form or even a representative form of government where people elect their rulers. Authority to rule is not rightly derived from the consent of the people, its delegated by God Himself. So voting in this election is not a question of Christian morality but one of wisdom. You need to learn how to play things smart and stop getting bulldozed into meaninglessness by conventional wisdom. Your moral duty, if you have one at all in this context, is to cast your vote for the MOST conservative (i.e. just) person who can win and thus bolster the morally preservative effect that the least evil person will have on our society in contrast to the more corrosive effect the worse of two evils would be.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend!

If you either vote for some a candidate that cannot win or refuse to vote at all, you become Hillary Clinton's friend.

That was proven without possible refutation in both 2004 and 2008! Those who voted for some hopeless third party or independent candidate or stayed home and didn't vote at all, gave Barrack Obama the White House and by extension gave all of us Obama Care and everything else that makes up the disaster the last eight years have been.

You need to wake up and realize where you are and just what sort of sociopolitical situation you're actually in because if a Democrat wins this election, this country, as you've known it, is finished! And it will stay finished probably forever but for at least the rest of your natural life. If you want to live out your days and you want your kids to at least have a chance of living out their days with at least a modicum of freedom, you damn well better do whatever you can do to prevent Hillary Clinton from getting within a mile of the Oval Office. And if that means holding your nose and pulling the lever for Donald Trump or Daffy Duck or whoever is the Republican nominee, so be it!

Resting in Him,
Clete

Excellent post.

 

[chrysostom]

so let's see if I got this right
-clete starts a thread on education
-and
-I am sure I would agree with him
-but
-clete hasn't told the idiots how to vote to get good education
-and
-the first real political post is to urge a vote for trump
-who
-just happens to love the low educated
-now
-did I miss something here?

 

[Crucible]

We don't want guns

"We" as in "Labour"

You all don't have a Constitution, so of course the tyranny of the influential takes over.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

can anyone show me a clete political post before today?
-can you show me where clete has directly answered a question?

How about we just "Show you the door?"

 

[Town Heretic]

oh, i well understand the enthusiasm with which people throw the hypocrite card hereabouts

Chrys made a cottage industry out of insulting people on the point. And now that he's changed tunes he's approaching people who do as he said they should with the same contempt and insult. I think that's funny enough to make a note or two.

as if all of us don't have that beam in our eye in some form

Well, we can't all be as irenic, considerate and non-judgmental as you...especially if we're fond of the words scumbag or retard. lain:

 

[ok doser]

Chrys made a cottage industry out of insulting people on the point. And now that he's changed tunes he's approaching people who do as he said they should with the same contempt and insult. I think that's funny enough to make a note or two.

so eat a can of beans and toot all you like :idunno:

Well, we can't all be as irenic, considerate and non-judgmental as you...especially if we're fond of the words scumbag or retard. lain:

he sez, responding to a post of mine in which those words were absent

but hey, go right ahead pointing out the mote in my eye :chuckle:

 

[ok doser]

He can just tell who the lushes are :chuckle:

well, he used to brag about it

Not one person on the not an idiot list answered my question:

Who are you "never vote for Trump folks" going to vote for if Trump becomes the Republican nominee?

they're all gonna vote for hillary, one way or the other

 

[Town Heretic]

You will not vote for Donald Trump and it won't make one damn bit of difference, except that it will help Hillary Clinton win.

That was chrys' line of thinking for years around here, until Trump came along. He was wrong then and you are now. You're also inconsistent given what you're about to say about the foundational nature of our compact.

You DO NOT live in a Christian society. You live in a totally secular society with an entirely secular government that is more corrupt than not.

You live in a nation mostly comprised of Christians who differ on all sorts of things and have the freedom to do so because our law/government is secular in nature. It's one reason we've had a long run. We have the legally enforceable right to our own conscience.

Everyone wants to pretend that their vote is some moral action. It isn't.

Few actions lack moral significance, but even inaction can be a moral act, depending on the circumstance. If you use your vote or your abstention as a means of voicing your moral position on the process then it's a moral action, regardless of the impact.

If you want to talk morality, you aught not have the right to vote at all! God never endorsed a democratic form or even a representative form of government where people elect their rulers. Authority to rule is not rightly derived from the consent of the people, its delegated by God Himself.

Your mistake here is to believe that the form of government, instead of the authority of government, is God declared.

So voting in this election is not a question of Christian morality but one of wisdom. You need to learn how to play things smart and stop getting bulldozed into meaninglessness by conventional wisdom. Your moral duty, if you have one at all in this context, is to cast your vote for the MOST conservative (i.e. just) person who can win and thus bolster the morally preservative effect that the least evil person will have on our society in contrast to the more corrosive effect the worse of two evils would be.

Your mistake there is in conflating conservatism and morality. They aren't necessarily joined, though they can be. The same is true for liberalism. It depends on where you take the fundamental principles.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend!

True if you're a Muslim...and I understand the line of thinking, but reject it as the projection of a context onto an act within its own context.

You need to wake up and realize where you are and just what sort of sociopolitical situation you're actually in because if a Democrat wins this election, this country, as you've known it, is finished!

No, though that's always the cry along the fringe of one side or the other, relatively speaking.

And it will stay finished probably forever but for at least the rest of your natural life. If you want to live out your days and you want your kids to at least have a chance of living out their days with at least a modicum of freedom, you damn well better do whatever you can do to prevent Hillary Clinton from getting within a mile of the Oval Office. And if that means holding your nose and pulling the lever for Donald Trump or Daffy Duck or whoever is the Republican nominee, so be it!

Hillary will resemble her husband, who was a complete rascal but a pretty decent president. The country won't go to hades in a handbasket and it won't be saved or ruined by Trump.

he sez, responding to a post of mine in which those words were absent

Yet you recognized them as staples of your posting. I wonder what the percentage is...Chrys didn't speak to the issue of how you had to vote in every post either, but he did so long enough to make the approach a fairly strong theme of his, along with an anti-union message. The same is true of you and the words I noted to inferentially point out the hypocrisy of your own posturing here.

but hey, go right ahead pointing out the mote in my eye

Keep inferring, but never demonstrating the plank in my own. Another difference between us. I don't shoot blanks.

 

[kmoney]

Ron Paul says GOP deserves convention rule controversy
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/18/polit...rump-rule-40-republican-convention/index.html


So in 2012 to avoid Ron Paul and get Mitt the Republicans changed a rule that the nominee for President had to carry 8 states and no longer 5. If true and the rule stands that will knock out Kaisach.

That has the drive the GOP crazy. Their changed rules are coming back to bite them.

 

[kmoney]

Not one person on the not an idiot list answered my question:

Who are you "never vote for Trump folks" going to vote for if Trump becomes the Republican nominee?

Gary Johnson maybe.

 

[kmoney]

The west is WRONG in trying to overthrow Assad, they supply the rebels and the rebels supply Isis, western policy in the middle east is a total disaster.

I wasn't trying to say anything about toppling Assad. :idunno: I'm talking about Putin and his shadiness.

 

[Clete]

Here's the truth about this whole issue...

It isn't about conservative vs. liberal, its about power and that's all its ever been about. If you get to choose the despot in power, you're stupid if you don't choose the one who wants LESS power than the other.

Republicans for Hillary Because Trump is not a Conservative? Really?

 

[ok doser]

Yet you recognized them as staples of your posting.

well, no - that's just your silly assertion

i recognize them as usages i go to from time to time

can't remember when I last used "scumbag" - it's certainly not a "staple"


looks like i used it a few times around February 27/28

18 uses total since September 5, 2015

Keep inferring, never demonstrating the plank in my own.

oh town, i'd never infer a plank in your eye - how could i?

but feel free to examine your own behavior and let us all know if you think you're without fault

Another difference between us. I don't shoot blanks.

keep waving that flag at yourself, sparky :darwinsm:

 

[Timotheos]

So you DO believe in hell

It's an expression in America. It means "The nation will get really bad if Trump or Clinton is elected."

Don't worry, I still believe that the Bible says that the wages of sin is death and not eternal torture.

 

[Rusha]

Chrys made a cottage industry out of insulting people on the point. And now that he's changed tunes he's approaching people who do as he said they should with the same contempt and insult. I think that's funny enough to make a note or two.

Exactly right. How often has Chrys proclaimed that anyone who doesn't vote Republican is a baby killer? Now that the person representing his party will most likely be Trump, he has proclaimed he will not vote for him. I wonder what not voting for Trump will make him? :think:

 

[Timotheos]

Who is Hillary for?

Herself.

 

[Timotheos]

IF Trump becomes the Republican nominee he will be a Republican, by definition. That much is undeniable but it doesn't matter because at that point the one thing that will trump (lower case t) every other fact about who Donald Trump is, is the fact that he is NOT a Democrat and is, at the very least, very much less likely to nominate socialists to the Supreme Court.

That's all you really need to know. Once (if) Trump has won the nomination, any vote for anyone else (or staying home and not voting at all) makes you an ally to those who want to destroy this country as founded and who, with the death of Antonin Scalia, will likely succeed if they win this election.

That's the facts of the reality in which you live. Like it or lump it. Your decision has it's effect whether for the better or for the worse.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Here's the problem with that. If Trump gets the nomination, then he is a republican as you say. Then He represents all republicans. Does that foul mouthed brainless baboon represent you? Probably not, you are far better than Trump. But the Republican Party is stuck as the party of Trump. The worst thing that could happen to Republicans is have a buffoon win the nomination and then win the election. We would become the buffoon party.

 

[Town Heretic]

well, no - that's just your silly assertion

Well, no. Now argue with yourself on the point:

i recognize them as usages i go to from time to time

Like I said, chrys didn't make the one post over and over either. But like you he made that sort of post consistently enough.

can't remember when I last used "scumbag" - it's certainly not a "staple"

You even started a thread with it. Though it's not as prevalent with you as "retard".

oh town, i'd never infer a plank in your eye - how could i?

You'll do that in lieu of the thing you can't do, which is make the objective case.

but feel free to examine your own behavior and let us all know if you think you're without fault

Because those are the choices, being a hypocrite on a central theme or being without fault.

keep waving that flag at yourself, sparky

Keep borrowing if you like. I've read you enough to understand your struggle on the point. But as with the inferential, you'll never make the case.