How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

Caino

BANNED
Banned
already solved...the angels were clear “in this same manner”...

some manner...more enduring substance...mansion worlds...make our way inward...type of vision...customary form...

Wow...not sure what gospel you are following...

Hebrews 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 1:50-51 "Jesus said, "You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that." 51He then added, "Very truly I tell you, you will see 'heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on' the Son of Man.""

Wow, not sure what Bible you read???
 

clefty

New member
Hebrews 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 1:50-51 "Jesus said, "You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that." 51He then added, "Very truly I tell you, you will see 'heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on' the Son of Man.""

Wow, not sure what Bible you read???

Lol...just wasn’t sure why you were wondering which form our limited senses could see Him? Your texts should have answered that for you...the same manner and substance the disciples saw Him...

But now what is that inward way in which we receive some type of vision to be able to see Him in His customary form?

Restored to sinlessness we are restored to being able to see Him Face to Face yes? Embrace Him, each other and literally eat of the tree of life and live forever in our glorified and physical bodies as it was before this detour of sin...
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Lol...just wasn’t sure why you were wondering which form our limited senses could see Him? Your texts should have answered that for you...the same manner and substance the disciples saw Him...

But now what is that inward way in which we receive some type of vision to be able to see Him in His customary form?

Restored to sinlessness we are restored to being able to see Him Face to Face yes? Embrace Him, each other and literally eat of the tree of life and live forever in our glorified and physical bodies as it was before this detour of sin...

In the next life in heaven we will have a new form. Whatever capability that form has for "vision" of other beings in heaven, will do the Job.

We never were incapable of sin or error. Its erroneous speculation to assume that the world was to have been sinless. In my theology the evolved earth had already fallen, already been betrayed by the time Adam and Eve arrived and succumb to the crafty best themselves before repenting.

Even in heaven, in our next life we may falter and choose destruction.

Death came specifically to Adam and Eve who lost the immortality status as incarnate celestials in human forms. They were barred from using the tree of life.
 
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way 2 go

Well-known member
God creates a whole lot of people and offers them His friendship, knowing some will, and some will not accept the offer.
what cult ?

There is zero point in God making man out of some spirit component which is indestructible, when God knows from the start that some are destined to destruction.

and yet God gave us a spirit
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,



So those God befriends He grows a bit of Himself inside them (remember we eat the communion Christ and drink the communion Christ and that feeds us, we are attached to the vine, we are part of the same body of Christ etc.)

But everything we are, our personality, character, appearance, and even the part of Christ grown in us is just data. And God remembers data perfectly. He could reproduce oatmeal perfectly from memory, down to the last hair.
And God certainly can see the bit of Christ He has grown in you, i.e. your spiritual character. That too is data.

character to your air :kookoo:


So when we die, there is no need of a spirit component.


and yet God gave us a spirit
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

The incorrigibly wicked are raised, judged, and burnt up because they are still raised as mortals - easy to destroy.
:nono:
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Those of us who took up the offer of salvation, at Christ's coming He resurrects with new spirit bodies with all their good character, good personality, good spiritual attributes, holy attitudes etc. The corrupted data (bad traits) He omits when He raises them from the dead. Those alive He instantly converts to spirit as they rise to meet Him in the air.
mormon?
new ager ?
mormon new ager ?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
what cult ?



and yet God gave us a spirit
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,





character to your air :kookoo:





and yet God gave us a spirit
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.


:nono:
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


mormon?
new ager ?
mormon new ager ?

You're surrounded by weirdos, way 2 go.:angrymob:
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
he asks for a drop of water to cool his tongue...spirits dont have any physical part to them...or that another physical material (water) can impact...or that another spirit (Lazarus) can come into hell to physically quench...
so you say Jesus lied

have you seen people being burnt to to death let alone constantly burnt...They don’t ask for a drop of water to cool their tongues...
spirit in non natural fire

Jesus only talked about things that actually exist
consciousness after death and fire that does not consume.

Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

How does the rich man know what Abraham looks like...how is it that heaven and hell are seperated by a ditch small enough to still see and recognize someone and still casually converse with them above the roar of hell’s eternal roaring flames and shrieks and cries of the eternally tormented?

so you say Jesus lied

To think it physically possible at all is ridiculous. The story was a popular folk tale Yahushua borrowed to make another point not having to do with the status of the after life at all.

Jesus in his earthly ministry only talked about things that exist .

Besides many people actually in real life came to believe after actually seeing in real life dead people resurrected back to real life that they witnessed...so how does Abraham know his brothers would not be convinced?
so you say Jesus lied

really? So all His parables are documentaries of real life?
no bible calls the rich man & Lazarus a parable.
John 3:12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? I guess you just dont believe He spoke of them. As if people came to Him to drink actual water pouring from Him...or actually eat Him...spirits burn?

Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
he asks for a drop of water to cool his tongue...spirits dont have any physical part to them...or that another physical material (water) can impact...or that another spirit (Lazarus) can come into hell to physically quench...

When a person loses a leg, he still feels pain in the leg. He finds it hard to believe he doesn't have a leg, since he was born with it, and had it all his life, and now it isn't there. He still tries to use his missing limb. You are so convinced that man is only a body, that you are going to be in for a big surprise when you leave yours behind. Poor thing.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
You're surrounded by weirdos, way 2 go.:angrymob:

this thread is full of weirdos :chuckle:

definitely not orthodox Christians on this thread

giphy.gif
 

iouae

Well-known member
Clefty, the bottom of the class, dunce students Glorydazed and Long-way-2-go want to call us names and a cult.

I say we just leave them to their ignorance. Ignorance is such a wonderful punisher of the ignorant.

You and I will continue in that glorious freedom which the way, the truth and the life gives us.
 

iouae

Well-known member
Glory-dazed and Long-way-2-go want to talk cults.

So let's talk cults.

Let's start with the biggest Christian cult, the Catholic Church.
Characteristic of all cults, they have a cult leader, the Pope, who thinks for them and interprets religion for them (I cannot even say he interprets the Bible for them since they are the opposite of sola scriptura). And if they leave their cult, they feel damned, because, wasn't "Peter"/Mr Pope given by Christ, the keys to the grave?

So the Catholics feel quite safe within the cocoon of their cult, knowing that if they go through the sacraments (mostly man made) ending with extreme unction, they make it. And I am not saying that some Catholics won't make it. Far be it from me to judge. To me there is only one box to tick and that is the "Friend of Jesus" box, and no doubt some Catholics are Jesus friends.

Let's get to the next big cult - the Reformed, Protestant churches.
These came out of the Mother religion or Catholicism. Starting with Luther, they objected to indulgences and the idea that a priest controlled your entrance to heaven, and the guilt which priests laid upon the laity to keep them in line.

So what did the Reformation do? It took a few steps away from Rome, in the direction of the "faith once delivered", and then stopped and camped a few miles from Rome, but a thousand miles from the faith once delivered to the first century apostle-led church.

Take an easy one for instance. The apostles were all 10C including Sabbath keeping. Rome had rejected everything Jewish including the Sabbath. So they threw out one of the big 10, in their dislike of anything Jewish. Anti-semitism is quite ironic since Jesus and all his apostles, and the early Israelite churches all had Jewish roots and began in synagogues, keeping the Sabbath.

But the Reformers kept Mother Rome's dislike for anything Jewish, and adopted a new idea - to call anything sounding like a law "legalistic". And "legalism" leads to feelings of guilt, which has to be bad, right? So now, anything goes. Who needs to get married to have sex? Who needs the opposite sex? Who needs rules. We have gone from the legalistic, guilt-inducing Catholic religion, to some no-rules=no-guilt opposite swing of the pendulum.

But the faith once delivered was a very definite "way" meaning a strict way of life. It had standards. You could not sleep with your stepmother and remain in good standing with the church. You could not lie to the holy spirit, and pretend to be someone in order to advance your status in the church.

And the faith once delivered did not believe in the immortality of the soul. The OT Jews did not believe in the immortality of the soul either. The OT did not say much on the matter, but men like David, Daniel, Job, Enoch knew that one day in the future they would be raised from the dead to be with their friend Jesus whom they walked with and talked to. They too ticked that box, "Friend of Jesus". To these men of faith, the idea that God "needed" an immortal component in man in order for God to be able to raise the dead would have sounded ridiculous and preposterous.

The Satan inspired, pagan societies with all their religions believed in an immortal soul, because they believed their "father" who taught them "you shall not surely die". So if you believe in the immortality of the soul, it is because you were birthed in a cult, and have not come out of that cult, to the faith once delivered.

Cult-blinded people like Glorydazed just put a :chuckle: in response to Ezekiel 37 which has Israelites, long dead, being resurrected bone to bone, being clothed with flesh and being told to live and know the Lord. No mention of an immortal soul here, yet the dead are given life. And all Glorydazed can do is chuckle away this description of a resurrection without any need for an immortal soul. Her religion and brain has no place where Ezekiel 37 fits in. No doubt she will say it is symbolic.

Most on this forum are so glory dazed by cult-think, have such a long-way-2-go to escape cult think, that you are reluctant to even try on a new paradigm called "truth". No, you will run back to the arms of your cult and feel secure in the sheer numbers of folks as ignorant as you who fill churches each Sunday. And in the Protestant cults, many tick the box "Friend of Jesus". There is no other box like "And smart too". You can be as dumb as a sheep and still be a friend of Jesus.
 
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clefty

New member
In the next life in heaven we will have a new form. Whatever capability that form has for "vision" of other beings in heaven, will do the Job.
how about bionic ears too? all the better to hear them with?

We never were incapable of sin or error. Its erroneous speculation to assume that the world was to have been sinless.
why erroneous? The point of the test in Eden was that Adam and Eve would prove faithful and obey not that they were created to fail.

In my theology the evolved earth had already fallen,
Created fallen? There was no death until after the disobedience...

already been betrayed by the time Adam and Eve arrived and succumb to the crafty best themselves before repenting?.
evolved earth was betrayed...not sure I follow and if I do I disagree...it did not evolve and it was inhabited by those angels who betrayed...and were outside the garden...save their leader who was part of the test

Even in heaven, in our next life we may falter and choose destruction.
the wages of faltering is death...which along with hell are shown symbolically thrown into the lake of fire which annihilates and is then annihilated itself...burnt out...no more...death and hell are no more option

Death came specifically to Adam and Eve who lost the immortality status as incarnate celestials in human forms. They were barred from using the tree of life.
yes...and in heaven we will continue to be mortal and dependent on the tree of life for consciousness and existence in the physical realm...unlike those who have no access to the tree of life as their names were not in the book of life...and they along with death and hell and the lake of fire are no more...certainly not just over a ditch small enough to talk to the living above the roar of magical flames making requests for physical water for to quench tongues of spirits and apparitions floating about
 

clefty

New member
When a person loses a leg,
in the physical realm while alive in a physical body with a physical brain
he still feels pain in the leg. He finds it hard to believe he doesn't have a leg, since he was born with it, and had it all his life, and now it isn't there. He still tries to use his missing limb.
because he remains in a physical body with a physical brain that continues to have a chemical and biological activity within his physical nervous system and physical brain.

You are so convinced that man is only a body,
I dont believe that. Man is only a living soul when two other things occur...the Spirit...His Spirit btw and physical “dust” come together with a miracle that not even science can explain what happens when sperm nails the egg...

that you are going to be in for a big surprise when you leave yours behind.
you mean when I wake up face to face and/or receive my new body in a twinkling of an eye...when His Spirit is returned and my living soul is continued? Naw...no surprise there...gratitude for receiving what was promised for not only believing but obeying...faithful to the end...

Poor thing.
no not poor physical thing...grateful rich physical thing on to spend eternity with Him having access to the tree of life restored...

Certainly not in hell able to see and casually talk to others in heaven about my needs and cares...hoping to persuade one in the physical realm in heaven to come over and assist me in my magical spirit burning in but not consuming eternal flames
 

clefty

New member
so you say Jesus lied
no you do as when He was asked about His real living and not hero of a folk tale friend Lazarus He said clearly and specifically He was dead...NOT on Abraham’s bosom or any other fallen saint’s bosom...


spirit in non natural fire
oh...now its non natural fire...I guess it’s gonna be non natural water to quench a non physical tongue...after a non natural trip across the non natural narrow ditch and to make a non natural entrance into this non natural place to do so...well that sure is a lot of non natural stuff happening

And not the natural view of hell far below and heaven far above...never the two shall meet

Obviously non natural too as natural water evaporates around natural roaring fires and naturally one can’t just casually walk into a place burning and offer it...to an apparition or spirit...do they even have tongues?

Jesus only talked about things that actually exist
consciousness after death and fire that does not consume.
He talked about being the light of the world...we need electricity yes? He spoke of having living waters being the vine and bread of life...did people drink from Him or eat His literal flesh? He spoke of coins and sheep lost and man rescued on the way to Jericho prodigal son returning...do those have to be documented events?

Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
so hell IS that close to heaven...awkward



so you say Jesus lied
nope used a popular folk tale about first being last and last being first...easy to see why popular and used it to make a still other point...it was never intended to be a documentary of the after life...

He could easily have used the real life Lazarus who was dead and in your supposed afterlife to testify of his experiences of four days there...”so there I was in paradise abraham’s bosom, streets of gold, mansions, beauty all around and then POOF I am back here!” Or heaven help he was in hell “FOUR DAYS?!!!! WHY DIDNT YOU HURRY TO SAVE ME?!!!” Now THAT would be testimony and a real draw dontcha think? But we got nothing...



Jesus in his earthly ministry only talked about things that exist .
the ability to actually “Go and sin no more”?

so you say Jesus lied
nope you do...He knows dead is dead says it’s a sleep to provide comfort to others He does not say “Dont worry about it...he’s on Abraham’s bosom”

In fact He purposely delayed so His Father might be glorified...now why allow your friend to die to go to heaven only to come back...or why not teach right then and there your “straight to heaven” dogma...instead He wept and not just because He saw the others troubled...He wept as He knew death is SEPERATION not INSTANT restoration...

Despite being a prophet that spoke more on hell than any other...surely He must have known how tormented people would be with the concept of Hell and yet nothing...no clear teaching no specific gospel just...death is a sleep


no bible calls the rich man & Lazarus a parable.
no bible call’s itself a bible either or has the word incarnation or trinity in it either or teaches the dead go to hell to burn forever but I have already posted links where scholars do call it a folk tale recognizing it to be such and we both know there is plenty out there for the rest of what I just said isnt in the Bible...true or not it is out there...unlike hell with special non natural magical non consuming flames needing no fuel to burn either I guess..


Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

It is forbidden to consult the dead even for the dead...lol...not because one can actually do so but because Satan creates the apparition to appear you can...and thus you believe him...and not what the good book teaches
 
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clefty

New member
This immortality thingy with its tormenting hell and Abraham’s bosom sentimentality was also conceived to perpetuate another important evil of the church...its making and trafficking of Ikons and relics...its idolatry

Much wealth and power and persuasion has come about from this idolatry. In order to pray to and through it to its prototype the ikon must represent someone who can hear those prayers and intercede and advocate and provide comfort from the realm of the dead...sorry heaven...

In order for the ikon to have true power it must first be believed the one represented lives and is conscious.

Think of all the saints represented by idols adored because of this deception.

Images are an abomination to Him...make none...worship none made...through it to its prototype...

Two wrongs do not make a right...
 
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clefty

New member
Clefty, the bottom of the class, dunce students Glorydazed and Long-way-2-go want to call us names and a cult.

I say we just leave them to their ignorance. Ignorance is such a wonderful punisher of the ignorant.

You and I will continue in that glorious freedom which the way, the truth and the life gives us.

The inquisition has always merely sought to defend the church its beliefs and mockery and ad homs and such are merely the beginning...

Indeed we will be hated for His Name’s sake...what’s a few weak attempts at juvenile redicule on the innernutz when in the past and as will be in the coming future real lives were lost...tortured and imprisoned first...

Use this time and medium to strengthen your faith to clarify your view and to declare Him good...having put on the whole armor and not just cute pictures of it...

HalleluYah
 

clefty

New member
Glory-dazed and Long-way-2-go want to talk cults.

So let's talk cults.

Let's start with the biggest Christian cult, the Catholic Church.
Characteristic of all cults, they have a cult leader, the Pope, who thinks for them and interprets religion for them (I cannot even say he interprets the Bible for them since they are the opposite of sola scriptura). And if they leave their cult, they feel damned, because, wasn't "Peter"/Mr Pope given by Christ, the keys to the grave?

So the Catholics feel quite safe within the cocoon of their cult, knowing that if they go through the sacraments (mostly man made) ending with extreme unction, they make it. And I am not saying that some Catholics won't make it. Far be it from me to judge. To me there is only one box to tick and that is the "Friend of Jesus" box, and no doubt some Catholics are Jesus friends.

Let's get to the next big cult - the Reformed, Protestant churches.
These came out of the Mother religion or Catholicism. Starting with Luther, they objected to indulgences and the idea that a priest controlled your entrance to heaven, and the guilt which priests laid upon the laity to keep them in line.

So what did the Reformation do? It took a few steps away from Rome, in the direction of the "faith once delivered", and then stopped and camped a few miles from Rome, but a thousand miles from the faith once delivered to the first century apostle-led church.

Take an easy one for instance. The apostles were all 10C including Sabbath keeping. Rome had rejected everything Jewish including the Sabbath. So they threw out one of the big 10, in their dislike of anything Jewish. Anti-semitism is quite ironic since Jesus and all his apostles, and the early Israelite churches all had Jewish roots and began in synagogues, keeping the Sabbath.

But the Reformers kept Mother Rome's dislike for anything Jewish, and adopted a new idea - to call anything sounding like a law "legalistic". And "legalism" leads to feelings of guilt, which has to be bad, right? So now, anything goes. Who needs to get married to have sex? Who needs the opposite sex? Who needs rules. We have gone from the legalistic, guilt-inducing Catholic religion, to some no-rules=no-guilt opposite swing of the pendulum.

But the faith once delivered was a very definite "way" meaning a strict way of life. It had standards. You could not sleep with your stepmother and remain in good standing with the church. You could not lie to the holy spirit, and pretend to be someone in order to advance your status in the church.

And the faith once delivered did not believe in the immortality of the soul. The OT Jews did not believe in the immortality of the soul either. The OT did not say much on the matter, but men like David, Daniel, Job, Enoch knew that one day in the future they would be raised from the dead to be with their friend Jesus whom they walked with and talked to. They too ticked that box, "Friend of Jesus". To these men of faith, the idea that God "needed" an immortal component in man in order for God to be able to raise the dead would have sounded ridiculous and preposterous.

The Satan inspired, pagan societies with all their religions believed in an immortal soul, because they believed their "father" who taught them "you shall not surely die". So if you believe in the immortality of the soul, it is because you were birthed in a cult, and have not come out of that cult, to the faith once delivered.

Cult-blinded people like Glorydazed just put a :chuckle: in response to Ezekiel 37 which has Israelites, long dead, being resurrected bone to bone, being clothed with flesh and being told to live and know the Lord. No mention of an immortal soul here, yet the dead are given life. And all Glorydazed can do is chuckle away this description of a resurrection without any need for an immortal soul. Her religion and brain has no place where Ezekiel 37 fits in. No doubt she will say it is symbolic.

Most on this forum are so glory dazed by cult-think, have such a long-way-2-go to escape cult think, that you are reluctant to even try on a new paradigm called "truth". No, you will run back to the arms of your cult and feel secure in the sheer numbers of folks as ignorant as you who fill churches each Sunday. And in the Protestant cults, many tick the box "Friend of Jesus". There is no other box like "And smart too". You can be as dumb as a sheep and still be a friend of Jesus.

Yes rather Him His way...as was found in the book of Acts a group known as “the Way”...a continuation of the OT “church in the wilderness” as poor Stephen called it before being killed by others defending their cult...
 

iouae

Well-known member
no you do as when He was asked about His real living and not hero of a folk tale friend Lazarus He said clearly and specifically He was dead...NOT on Abraham’s bosom or any other fallen saint’s bosom...


oh...now its non natural fire...I guess it’s gonna be non natural water to quench a non physical tongue...after a non natural trip across the non natural narrow ditch and to make a non natural entrance into this non natural place to do so...well that sure is a lot of non natural stuff happening.

And not the natural view of hell far below and heaven far above...never the two shall meet

Obviously non natural too as natural water evaporates around natural roaring fires and naturally one can’t just casually walk into a place burning and offer it...to an apparition or spirit...do they even have tongues?

He talked about being the light of the world...we need electricity yes? He spoke of having living waters being the vine and bread of life...did people drink from Him or eat His literal flesh? He spoke of coins and sheep lost and man rescued on the way to Jericho prodigal son returning...do those have to be documented events?

so hell IS that close to heaven...awkward



nope used a popular folk tale about first being last and last being first...easy to see why popular and used it to make a still other point...it was never intended to be a documentary of the after life...

He could easily have used the real life Lazarus who was dead and in your supposed afterlife to testify of his experiences of four days there...”so there I was in paradise abraham’s bosom, streets of gold, mansions, beauty all around and then POOF I am back here!” Or heaven help he was in hell “FOUR DAYS?!!!! WHY DIDNT YOU HURRY TO SAVE ME?!!!” Now THAT would be testimony and a real draw dontcha think? But we got nothing...



the ability to actually “Go and sin no more”?

nope you do...He knows dead is dead says it’s a sleep to provide comfort to others He does not say “Dont worry about it...he’s on Abraham’s bosom”

In fact He purposely delayed so His Father might be glorified...now why allow your friend to die to go to heaven only to come back...or why not teach right then and there your “straight to heaven” dogma...instead He wept and not just because He saw the others troubled...He wept as He knew death is SEPERATION not INSTANT restoration...

Despite being a prophet that spoke more on hell than any other...surely He must have known how tormented people would be with the concept of Hell and yet nothing...no clear teaching no specific gospel just...death is a sleep


no bible call’s itself a bible either or has the word incarnation or trinity in it either or teaches the dead go to hell to burn forever but I have already posted links where scholars do call it a folk tale recognizing it to be such and we both know there is plenty out there for the rest of what I just said isnt in the Bible...true or not it is out there...unlike hell with special non natural magical non consuming flames needing no fuel to burn either I guess..

Priceless. This whole post I have copied and filed away with my forever keepers. :)
 

clefty

New member
Priceless. This whole post I have copied and filed away with my forever keepers. :)

HalleluYah...yes these forums inspire this...finding different angles and such to address issues...you are doing the same...the innernutz indeed will be as powerful tool as the printing press was to get the gospel truth out...

May He lead...
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
no you do as when He was asked about His real living and not hero of a folk tale friend Lazarus He said clearly and specifically He was dead...NOT on Abraham’s bosom or any other fallen saint’s bosom...

you are saying Jesus talked about a place that does not exist , that would be a lie
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

oh...now its non natural fire...I guess it’s gonna be non natural water to quench a non physical tongue...after a non natural trip across the non natural narrow ditch and to make a non natural entrance into this non natural place to do so...well that sure is a lot of non natural stuff happening
God is in heaven, is heaven natural?:nono: is God natural? :nono: are Angels natural ?:nono: are demons natural ? :nono:
is the eternal lake of fire natural Mat 25:41 ?:nono:
are our spirits natural ?:nono:


And not the natural view of hell far below and heaven far above...never the two shall meet
strawman.
Abraham's bosom is not heaven

Obviously non natural too as natural water evaporates around natural roaring fires and naturally one can’t just casually walk into a place burning and offer it...to an apparition or spirit...do they even have tongues?
spirits can talk
Moses was a spirit
Mat 17:3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him.

Samuel was a spirit
1Sa 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

He talked about being the light of the world...we need electricity yes?
He spoke of having living waters being the vine and bread of life...did people drink from Him or eat His literal flesh? He spoke of coins and sheep lost and man rescued on the way to Jericho prodigal son returning...do those have to be documented events?

light exist
vines exist
water exist
bread exist
coins exist
sheep exist
spirits exist

you are saying Jesus talked about a place that does not exist , that would be a lie


nope used a popular folk tale about first being last and last being first...easy to see why popular and used it to make a still other point...it was never intended to be a documentary of the after life...

you are saying Jesus talked about a place that does not exist , that would be a lie
He could easily have used the real life Lazarus who was dead and in your supposed afterlife to testify of his experiences of four days there...”so there I was in paradise abraham’s bosom, streets of gold, mansions, beauty all around and then POOF I am back here!” Or heaven help he was in hell “FOUR DAYS?!!!! WHY DIDNT YOU HURRY TO SAVE ME?!!!” Now THAT would be testimony and a real draw dontcha think? But we got nothing...

Jesus point of letting Mary's Lazarus die was so Jesus could resurrect Lazarus and to show who Jesus was

the Gospel is about Jesus


no bible call’s itself a bible either or has the word incarnation or trinity in it either

Jesus never said "I am God "

I believe Jesus is God
Joh_14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
or teaches the dead go to hell to burn forever

Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Most on this forum are so glory dazed by cult-think, have such a long-way-2-go to escape cult think, that you are reluctant to even try on a new paradigm called "truth". No, you will run back to the arms of your cult and feel secure in the sheer numbers of folks as ignorant as you who fill churches each Sunday. And in the Protestant cults, many tick the box "Friend of Jesus". There is no other box like "And smart too". You can be as dumb as a sheep and still be a friend of Jesus.
vowels 1 meaning of spirit = o2

Joh 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

vowels version : god is o2 and those who worship him must worship in o2 and truth :kookoo:


you suffer from illegitimate totality transfer
you have latched on to 1 definition of the word spirit & have illegitimate totality transferred it to be the
only meaning of the word that has multiple meanings.

pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

is vowels about truth :nono:
is vowels trying to lead people astray with illegitimate totality transfer of the word spirit ,yes
 
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