How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

[iouae]

Notice that man was made from...
1) dust of ground (atoms)
2) breath of life
1 + 2 = BECAME a soul. Not was given an additional component called the "soul"
Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul

Gen 7:15
And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

This shows that "breath of life" is common to animals too, and is simply "air".

So man is entirely mortal, with no supernatural components.

If you want proof that animals ARE souls too, here are verses saying so. "Soul" is H5315

Gen 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath H5315 life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Gen 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature H5315 that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature H5315 after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen 1:30
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, H5315 I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. H5315

 

[clefty]

I like the simple explanation, Mary was excited to see the resurrected Jesus.

Sure...once she recognized Him...

but that excitement doesnt help answer how we will be when we see Him...or how He is as we havent seen Him yet and only recorded accounts of others who have.

 

[clefty]

if we are already immortal why would he?

Exactly...of course we are not immortal never were...adam was dependent on the tree of life...is why he was banned from the garden and a cherubim was place to gaurd specifically the path to the tree of life...not good and evil or the other trees...but access to the tree of life...

Even in the new glorified body the tree of life will be there in the new earth its leaves even for the healing of all nations...

No tree of life in hell or purgatory...NO LIFE...no body so NO SPIRIT as it is HIS...no body + HIS spirit no living soul...

 

[clefty]

God creates a whole lot of people and offers them His friendship, knowing some will, and some will not accept the offer.

There is zero point in God making man out of some spirit component which is indestructible, when God knows from the start that some are destined to destruction.

So those God befriends He grows a bit of Himself inside them (remember we eat the communion Christ and drink the communion Christ and that feeds us, we are attached to the vine, we are part of the same body of Christ etc.)

But everything we are, our personality, character, appearance, and even the part of Christ grown in us is just data. And God remembers data perfectly. He could reproduce oatmeal perfectly from memory, down to the last hair. And God certainly can see the bit of Christ He has grown in you, i.e. your spiritual character. That too is data.

So when we die, there is no need of a spirit component.

The incorrigibly wicked are raised, judged, and burnt up because they are still raised as mortals - easy to destroy.

Those of us who took up the offer of salvation, at Christ's coming He resurrects with new spirit bodies with all their good character, good personality, good spiritual attributes, holy attitudes etc. The corrupted data (bad traits) He omits when He raises them from the dead. Those alive He instantly converts to spirit as they rise to meet Him in the air.

We are NOT naked spirits but clothed as Paul wrote with new buildings of God...we are not just spirits but must have bodies to live in new world embrace and kiss and shake hands and well you know bite into chew swallow and digest fruit from the tree of life access to which has been restored...

 

[popsthebuilder]

Notice that man was made from...
1) dust of ground (atoms)
2) breath of life
1 + 2 = BECAME a soul. Not was given an additional component called the "soul"
Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul

Gen 7:15
And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

This shows that "breath of life" is common to animals too, and is simply "air".

So man is entirely mortal, with no supernatural components.

If you want proof that animals ARE souls too, here are verses saying so. "Soul" is H5315

Gen 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath H5315 life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Gen 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature H5315 that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature H5315 after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen 1:30
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, H5315 I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. H5315

But you are clearly ascribing limits to both earth and breath that just aren't there. It seems you are doing such in order to support your position.

The breath of life is not limited to literal oxygen and pertains moreso to the sustanance of the Spirit.

And the dust can represent literally all physical building components needed for all existence? We can't assume limits that aren't supported.

GOD is without limit.

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[clefty]

But you are clearly ascribing limits to both earth and breath that just aren't there. It seems you are doing such in order to support your position.

The breath of life is not limited to literal oxygen and pertains moreso to the sustanance of the Spirit.

And the dust can represent literally all physical building components needed for all existence? We can't assume limits that aren't supported.

GOD is without limit.

Except to force us to worship Him with either fear or buying us with protection money...ironic He limited Himself by first making us with free choice and then again to reach us then reconcile us...risked His begotten One for us...had to let Him be killed

 

[popsthebuilder]

Except to force us to worship Him with either fear or buying us with protection money...ironic He limited Himself by first making us with free choice and then again to reach us then reconcile us...risked His begotten One for us...had to let Him be killed

GOD doesn't force any to worship HIM.

fear and greed are wholly opposed to the will of GOD as it pertains to man.

How did GOD limit himself by giving us freedom?

We are reconciled by the Truth. What other means would you expect? And how does that limit GOD?

You asserting that GOD risked a thing is to assert that GOD is not all knowing, which I do not agree with in the least.

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[clefty]

GOD doesn't force any to worship HIM.

yup just said that...

fear and greed are wholly opposed to the will of GOD as it pertains to man.

to man...how about other created beings in the universe?

How did GOD limit himself by giving us freedom?

you missed that disobedience part in the garden did you? Now He had two others who didnt worship Him propers besides Satan and his crew...He didnt kill them though limited Himself to killing a substitute to cover them from His wrath...grace I say...He could not win their trust and obedience so He was limited and in handing out immediate judgement but revealed His mercy and grace...

We are reconciled by the Truth. What other means would you expect? And how does that limit GOD?

Truth is He is Love...boom...limits to love arent there? Imagine Him doing something not His character of love...impossible to claim to be a GOOD God then yes?

You asserting that GOD risked a thing is to assert that GOD is not all knowing, which I do not agree with in the least.

fine...but what type of sacrifice is that? Knowing it is not a sacrifice...

 

[popsthebuilder]

yup just said that...

to man...how about other created beings in the universe?

you missed that disobedience part in the garden did you? Now He had two others who didnt worship Him propers besides Satan and his crew...He didnt kill them though limited Himself to killing a substitute to cover them from His wrath...grace I say...He could not win their trust and obedience so He was limited and in handing out immediate judgement but revealed His mercy and grace...

Truth is He is Love...boom...limits to love arent there? Imagine Him doing something not His character of love...impossible to claim to be a GOOD God then yes?

fine...but what type of sacrifice is that? Knowing it is not a sacrifice...

Other creatures survive using fear and greed; what is your point?

Are you saying GOD created man not knowing he would turn to his own desires given freedom?

To you GOD is simply love?

That is strange to me.

GOD is faithful to HIS Word.

What kind of sacrifice is what?

As if GOD had to make a blood sacrifice to himself for the sin he placed in man as potential.

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[clefty]

Other creatures survive using fear and greed; what is your point?

exactly that we are not creatures to survive but sons of the Living God to live life abundantly according to His plan...

Are you saying GOD created man not knowing he would turn to his own desires given freedom?

it was a test...for maybe He knew they would end up having to work the dust and that’s why He instituted Sabbath and did NOT curse it...when everything else was...

To you GOD is simply love?

His Love is the furthest thing from simple...but not without limits...

That is strange to me.

stranger if it wasn’t...

GOD is faithful to HIS Word.

limited by it actually...remember Moses prevented Him from destroying Israel and starting over by reminding Yah He would look bad among the nations for going against His own people/His word

What kind of sacrifice is what?

knowing the outcome...giving guaranteed of greater return...

As if GOD had to make a blood sacrifice to himself for the sin he placed in man as potential.

as if...breaking your own Law still has consequences...

 

[iouae]

But you are clearly ascribing limits to both earth and breath that just aren't there. It seems you are doing such in order to support your position.

If man and beast have the same components viz. earth (atoms) and breath of life what I am NOT doing is saying that man's breath of life is immortal.

And if the Bible clearly shows that both man and beasts ARE souls, I am not ascribing an immortal element to man's soul. Ockham says the simplest explanation is most likely the best. And I don't need a spirit/immortal component for God to resurrect me. He can do it from memory.

And it makes sense that God makes man mortal, because that's easy to destroy if need be. No need for eternal punishing, which is an insult to the God of love.

The breath of life is not limited to literal oxygen and pertains moreso to the sustanance of the Spirit.

What proof or need is there for this?

And the dust can represent literally all physical building components needed for all existence? We can't assume limits that aren't supported.

GOD is without limit.

The Bible is consistent that dust is mortal. It has limits. And breath of life is air which animates animals or oxygenates the blood. Often the Bible says "the life is in the blood" for this reason. Life is nowhere else but in the blood, since blood carries the breath of life to the cells. Life is not in the immortal soul, or the Bible would have said that instead of that life is in the blood.

God just is restating what we all learned in biology class about blood. Blood with the breath of life (oxygenated) which is found in the arteries, is bright red. Blood without the breath of life (deoxygenated) which is found in the veins, is blue.

 

[popsthebuilder]

If man and beast have the same components viz. earth (atoms) and breath of life what I am NOT doing is saying that man's breath of life is immortal.

And if the Bible clearly shows that both man and beasts ARE souls, I am not ascribing an immortal element to man's soul. Ockham says the simplest explanation is most likely the best. And I don't need a spirit/immortal component for God to resurrect me. He can do it from memory.

And it makes sense that God makes man mortal, because that's easy to destroy if need be. No need for eternal punishing, which is an insult to the God of love.


What proof or need is there for this?



The Bible is consistent that dust is mortal. It has limits. And breath of life is air which animates animals or oxygenates the blood. Often the Bible says "the life is in the blood" for this reason. Life is nowhere else but in the blood, since blood carries the breath of life to the cells. Life is not in the immortal soul, or the Bible would have said that instead of that life is in the blood.

God just is restating what we all learned in biology class about blood. Blood with the breath of life (oxygenated) which is found in the arteries, is bright red. Blood without the breath of life (deoxygenated) which is found in the veins, is blue.

Who said a spirit or soul was wholly immortal?



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[Caino]

Sure...once she recognized Him...

but that excitement doesnt help answer how we will be when we see Him...or how He is as we havent seen Him yet and only recorded accounts of others who have.

If Jesus returned today for the visit that he promised, he will have to take on some form that would allow us to experience him with our limited senses. Consider the appearance of Gabriel to Mary, by some technique he was able to make himself visible to her eyes. In the next life we will be resurrected in the "more enduring substance" on the mansion worlds. As we make our way inward we will have a type of vision which will enable us to see Christ in his customary form.

 

[iouae]

Who said a spirit or soul was wholly immortal?



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Tell us what these are then.

My position is that there is nothing which God has made which He cannot destroy.

That includes us, in eternity.

The logic is go watch movies where you create something which turns around and bites you - from frankenstein to 2001 a Space Odyssey.

 

[clefty]

Who said a spirit or soul was wholly immortal?



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The foundational premise for hell is exactly that...souls and spirits bodies burning forever in literal fire consuming how much fuel...Divine Miracle I guess...

Despite not even in the garden of Eden were they immortal but dependent on the tree of life which was denied them after they rebelled...

It will be restored so that in the world to come we will again physically eat and digest its literal fruits...and in that way live forever...NOT of ourselves created immortal or otherwise...

 

[popsthebuilder]

Tell us what these are then.

My position is that there is nothing which God has made which He cannot destroy.

That includes us, in eternity.

The logic is go watch movies where you create something which turns around and bites you - from frankenstein to 2001 a Space Odyssey.

Who said we couldn't be destroyed by GOD?

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[popsthebuilder]

The foundational premise for hell is exactly that...souls and spirits bodies burning forever in literal fire consuming how much fuel...Divine Miracle I guess...

Despite not even in the garden of Eden were they immortal but dependent on the tree of life which was denied them after they rebelled...

It will be restored so that in the world to come we will again physically eat and digest its literal fruits...and in that way live forever...NOT of ourselves created immortal or otherwise...

The Bible says destroyed eternally; as in never to return; kaput; no mas

¿Habla?

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[clefty]

If Jesus returned today for the visit that he promised, he will have to take on some form that would allow us to experience him with our limited senses.

already solved...the angels were clear “in this same manner”...

Consider the appearance of Gabriel to Mary, by some technique he was able to make himself visible to her eyes. In the next life we will be resurrected in the "more enduring substance" on the mansion worlds. As we make our way inward we will have a type of vision which will enable us to see Christ in his customary form.

some manner...more enduring substance...mansion worlds...make our way inward...type of vision...customary form...

Wow...not sure what gospel you are following...

 

[clefty]

The Bible says destroyed eternally; as in never to return; kaput; no mas

¿Habla?

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Sure but you did ask “who said the spirit of soul were wholly immortal?”

So I thought to remind you that any and all who believe the literal eternal fires thingy...

 

[Caino]

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