beloved57
Well-known member
Amen!
Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Shasta
Well-known member
Adding extra words into the text of 2 Cor. 5:19 so that it reads God was in Christ reconciling the ELECT world to himself is entirely improper unless you can show reasons from the passage why we should interpret it that way. Otherwise you are guilty of adding to the scriptures.
Also you and your absentee partner 58 have spoken as if the sins of the elect are not imputed to them even before the foundation of the world. However, this flies in the face of the very definition of what it means to be elect.
1. First the elect are those who are called out of the world. The word Church (ekklesia) means the "called out ones. How can the elect be called OUT of the world if they were never a PART of the world?
2. The Elect have been delivered from the power of sin. How can they be delivered from sin if they were never under the power of sin?
3. The elect are forgiven but how can they be forgiven if sin has never been imputed to them?
4. The elect have been reconciled to God. How can the elect be reconciled to God if they were never His enemies in the first place?
Finally, just when do you think God was "reconciling the world to Himself?" Neither of you has been clear about that.
Shasta
Well-known member
The "non-imputation of sin" is a rather clumsy way of expressing the concept of "forgiveness" The person who is forgiven does not bear the guilt of his sin anymore. God on the basis of the the Son's sacrifice and through our faith in Him no longer "imputes" the sin to him.
Since He died for the world we can proclaim this message to all. Calvinism does not really believe what Jesus says:
37 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.(John 7:37-39).
Since in Calvinism he did not die for everyone there is not enough living water to go around. The offer of free living water for all is therefore false advertising. To make this scripture fit the Calvin model a great deal of words have to be added to the text.
37 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone (of ELECT WORLD)thirsts (according to the irresistible influence of the Holy Spirit) let (I will order) him come to me and (I force him to) drink. 38 Whoever (i.e., among MY ELECT) believes in me (by divine decree), as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart (I) will (sovereignly make) flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him (the inhabitants of ELECT WORLD) were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified..(John 7:37-39)
Since He died for the world we can proclaim this message to all. Calvinism does not really believe what Jesus says:
37 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.(John 7:37-39).
Since in Calvinism he did not die for everyone there is not enough living water to go around. The offer of free living water for all is therefore false advertising. To make this scripture fit the Calvin model a great deal of words have to be added to the text.
37 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone (of ELECT WORLD)thirsts (according to the irresistible influence of the Holy Spirit) let (I will order) him come to me and (I force him to) drink. 38 Whoever (i.e., among MY ELECT) believes in me (by divine decree), as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart (I) will (sovereignly make) flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him (the inhabitants of ELECT WORLD) were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified..(John 7:37-39)
beloved57
Well-known member
Grace reign is superior to sins reign and death !
Grace reign is superior to sins reign and death !
Rom 5:21
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Now none would disagree that sin hath reigned unto death, because of the sin of One man Adam Rom 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Death by/because of sin was passed upon all men that Adam represented !
This death passed upon them was not for or because of their own personal sin, for they were not yet born or existed to do any good or evil !
But where unbelief reigns, the antithetical stated Truth that, even as sin reigned unto death through Adam, that Grace reigns through Righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord, the same as saying, Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death[because sin reigns]; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.[Because Grace reigns]
You see, The Grace that reigns through Righteousness of Christ, it conquers/overcomes sin and death reign which came about because of the inferior being Adam.
Did you know that if anyone Christ died for enters into eternal death or the second death, or do not see life as Per Rev 20:14;21:8;Jn 3:36 then that means, the reign of sin unto death by Adam the inferior was of superior effect and consequence than that of Christ, which by His Righteousness[Rom 5:18] Grace reigns unto eternal life !
Yet many will falsely teach that what Christ did for those He represented is overcome by and inferior to what Adam did by his representation of them, the same ones Christ represented ! They therefore teach that sin and death reign superior through adam than does Grace and Righteousness through Christ !
This is a Blasphemous and Antichrist teaching and its no other way to put it !
Grace reign is superior to sins reign and death !
Rom 5:21
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Now none would disagree that sin hath reigned unto death, because of the sin of One man Adam Rom 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Death by/because of sin was passed upon all men that Adam represented !
This death passed upon them was not for or because of their own personal sin, for they were not yet born or existed to do any good or evil !
But where unbelief reigns, the antithetical stated Truth that, even as sin reigned unto death through Adam, that Grace reigns through Righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord, the same as saying, Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death[because sin reigns]; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.[Because Grace reigns]
You see, The Grace that reigns through Righteousness of Christ, it conquers/overcomes sin and death reign which came about because of the inferior being Adam.
Did you know that if anyone Christ died for enters into eternal death or the second death, or do not see life as Per Rev 20:14;21:8;Jn 3:36 then that means, the reign of sin unto death by Adam the inferior was of superior effect and consequence than that of Christ, which by His Righteousness[Rom 5:18] Grace reigns unto eternal life !
Yet many will falsely teach that what Christ did for those He represented is overcome by and inferior to what Adam did by his representation of them, the same ones Christ represented ! They therefore teach that sin and death reign superior through adam than does Grace and Righteousness through Christ !
This is a Blasphemous and Antichrist teaching and its no other way to put it !
Shasta
Well-known member
So whenever man refuses God's gracious offer of salvation that is an example of OVERPOWERING God? It only is interpreted as a power struggle in the minds of Calvinists who seem to think everything that goes on between God and man is a power struggle. This begs the question of whether God is in the business of coercion at all. Begging the question does not address the question and so does nothing to prove your point.
When a man refuses to heed God's call he has not overpowering God. He has turned down the best deal in eternity. He has not "won" a contest with God. He has damned himself which makes him a loser in a greater way than he can imagine.
Now let's look at the comparison between the First and Last Adam. You present this also as if they two were in a contest. The primary result of the First Adam's fall was universal death. This came to us involuntarily because we were all connected to Him ORGANICALLY.
The life of the Last Adam can only be enjoyed by those who have been joined to Him. This joining into union takes place only when we repent of our sins and believe in Jesus. THEN and ONLY then do we have life. The second birth, in contrast to the first, is miraculous and only happens because of the miraculous work on the cross. I would say that is a far mightier achievement than just being born after the flesh. The Last Adam far surpasses the First without irresistible grace. There is no contest between the two without adopting your system
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Shasta
Well-known member
He might learn the meaning of "many are cold but a few are frozen"
Shasta
Well-known member
Christ has not lost. The person who has refused Him has lost. The Father through the Spirit merely invites people to come. This is always the way it is presented in scripture. God's sovereign will is that only those who have FREELY CHOSEN to serve Him will enter into the Joy of the Lord. What makes the offer exclusive is the response of people. If people are programmed to believe then they have not freely chosen Him.
In this the justice of the Lord is balanced by His mercy. In Calvin's system God is not just for He who predetermines that most men refuse Him then punishes them for doing what they cannot help doing. This is an absurdity. In fact the whole system is and absurdity. You cannot even be sure you believe it because it is true or because your mind has been preordained to think a certain way. You cannot claim validity for even your own thoughts.
Aside from that, Calvin's system is supported by an horrendous hermeneutical method. It requires adding into scripture meanings that the original writer could not have meant and changing the meaning of plain terms by inserting extraneous ideas. In this way "all" is altered to mean SOME and "world" is transmogrified into ELECT world. This shameless reading into the text imports ideas unknown to the writer. For instance, all the alterations in John's writings could not be valid because judging by what he wrote in his epistles the Apostle John believed in freewill.
From the earliest days of Christianity freewill was the prevailing view among the orthodox. Concepts like "predestination" and "inability" were considered Pagan and opposed to the Christian Faith. There was no specialized theological system built upon Calvin's interpretation of Romans 9.
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes or No ?
Yes or No ?
shasta
Who said He did ? Yet if you teach that anyone He Lived and died for winds up in Hell, the Second Death, you teach that what Adam did and sins reign unto death, defeated what Christ did bringing grace regin through Righteousness unto Eternal Life ! Rom 5:21
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Now do you believe that One for whom Christ died can ever be one of these Rev 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Yes or No ?
Yes or No ?
shasta
Who said He did ? Yet if you teach that anyone He Lived and died for winds up in Hell, the Second Death, you teach that what Adam did and sins reign unto death, defeated what Christ did bringing grace regin through Righteousness unto Eternal Life ! Rom 5:21
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Now do you believe that One for whom Christ died can ever be one of these Rev 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Yes or No ?
Shasta
Well-known member
You are the one claiming that if Christ died for anyone who refuses His offer of salvation then God has somehow lost but the word says some will choose to reject the call. Yet it points out that THEY will suffer the consequences.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them (John 3:36 NIV)
To "reject" anything is a decision of the will. Look at another translation
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him (John 3:36 ESV)
Without tampering with this scripture by reading Calvinistic ideas into it the verse says we can put our faith in Him or we can reject Him. Nothing is said in this passage about saving (necessitating) "grace" but a Calvinist cannot read this verse as it is written. Rather they must import this Calvinist idea into the scripture and then read it as if that is how the Apostle John really meant it.
You seem to think that God always gets what He wants. That is, no doubt, your definition of "sovereignty" Such a concept is incompatible with the existence of any ability to choose on the part of any creature. If it is true, no being who has ever existed has ever had a choice: not the Devil, not Adam and Eve, not the whole human race. God who made man in His image apparently left out a very important part of who He is: self determination.
God is so threatened by the possibility that a man may make a free choice that their even sins have been predetermined. Your conception of God is low as the Islamic conception of the impassive Allah who also determines all things.
To answer your question, though, every man who goes to hell could have had a different destiny because Christ died for all. Because they have the opportunity their loss cannot be laid at God's feet. In your view everyone who goes to hell never had a chance. They were predestined to be enemies of God yet are punished for being so.
Shasta
Well-known member
The meaning of the "world" in John 3:16 is mankind not the elect. You cannot justify that definition by any linguistic reference. This was made up specifically to accommodate Calvinism. No one in ancient Christianity took the verse to mean what you say,
Christ died for all to give everyone the opportunity to be saved. Those who believe in Him are saved those who reject him are damned. Because it is possible for anyone to be saved God is both just and merciful. If God commands people to believe who cannot believe, if God HIMSELF KEEPS them from believing by withholding saving grace, if no salvation is possible for them because there is no atoning sacrifice and God punishes them anyway - then God is neither just nor merciful.
You seem to think that if Jesus died for anyone who rejects Him that Jesus is somehow losing out. He is not. The one who rejects Him is the loser.
beloved57
Well-known member
The God of Peace will Sanctify us wholly !
The God of Peace will Sanctify us wholly !
1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And God is a God of Peace unto all for whom Christ their Shepherd died for, Heb 13:20-21
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
All for whom Christ was brought again from the Dead for, all of them God is a God of Peace unto !
He established for them with God Peace, through the Blood of His Cross Peace Col 1:20
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
God is at Peace with them Christ died for and they have been reconciled to God even while they are enemies,unbelievers Rom 5:10 !
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled[have peace] to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
But now as the God of Peace unto us, because Christ has satisfied on our behalf God's Law and Justice, God sees to it that we are Sanctified wholly !
That word Wholly means :
perfect, complete, all.
holotelḗs (an adjective, derived from 3650 /hólos, "whole" and 5056 /télos, "end-purpose") – properly, wholly (holistically), "fully-layered" (all levels present) – describing someone reaching the end-goal of "entire sanctification."
This God will do, as long as Christ has by His Blood made Peace for you, which He did if He died for you !
The God of Peace will Sanctify us wholly !
1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And God is a God of Peace unto all for whom Christ their Shepherd died for, Heb 13:20-21
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
All for whom Christ was brought again from the Dead for, all of them God is a God of Peace unto !
He established for them with God Peace, through the Blood of His Cross Peace Col 1:20
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
God is at Peace with them Christ died for and they have been reconciled to God even while they are enemies,unbelievers Rom 5:10 !
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled[have peace] to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
But now as the God of Peace unto us, because Christ has satisfied on our behalf God's Law and Justice, God sees to it that we are Sanctified wholly !
That word Wholly means :
perfect, complete, all.
holotelḗs (an adjective, derived from 3650 /hólos, "whole" and 5056 /télos, "end-purpose") – properly, wholly (holistically), "fully-layered" (all levels present) – describing someone reaching the end-goal of "entire sanctification."
This God will do, as long as Christ has by His Blood made Peace for you, which He did if He died for you !
beloved57
Well-known member
A Biblical fact about ones redemption/salvation !
A Biblical fact about ones redemption/salvation !
Before the Elect sinner believed, and while yet dead in sin, they nevertheless had Redemption through the Blood of Christ with the forgiveness of sins according to Grace Riches Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
This means that before they believed the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13, they had been rescued or purchased from the debt of sin, which is death Rom 6:23, which also further means even as unconverted dead sinners, in enmity and unbelief, they could never go into the second death that we read about here Rev 2:11
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev 20:6,14
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The lake of fire is also the second death ! Remember when Jesus addressed the goats on His Left hand with these words Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Thats the second death ! Now none whom Christ died for and redeemed by His blood can take part in this "everlasting fire" because thats the second death, and all death is the result of sin Rom 6:23, and all whom He died for are redeemed from the penalty of sin, their sin debt has been cancelled . The word redemption in Eph 1:7 is the greek word apolytrōsis and means:
I.a releasing effected by payment of ransom
A.redemption, deliverance
B.liberation procured by the payment of a ransom
First and foremost they have been liberated from and or released from the dept of sin, Justified from it, because the same word is used here to make that claim Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus or His Blood:
The word Justified here also means to be declared guiltless ! That goes along with the forgiveness of sin Eph 1:7, and that word forgiveness is the word aphesis which means:
I.release from bondage or imprisonment
II.forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
Now what is the penalty of sin ? Rom 6:23
23 For the wages[cost,price,compensation] of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The redemption the elect sinner has while dead in sin, releases them from the price, compensation, penalty, cost of their sins !
All phases of death for sin has been abolished, in fact that is why they must be born again, to prove or give evidence that their redemption through Christ's blood cancelled out their sin debt of death ! That God has for Christ's blood sake on their behalf forgiven them Eph 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
You see that statement ? God has not forgiven the elect sinner because they repented, or because they believed, or because they made confession, no it was for Christ's sake ! This goes with Gods statement in the Prophets also Isa 43:25
I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
Because of the redemption the elect have through the Blood of Christ, they even as dead, rebellious sinners already have been delivered from the penalty of their sins, which is death. Even if they were to fall dead before God in a unrepentant state, they must be received into Heaven into the Kingdom of Glory, and never meet with the condemnation of the second death, for Christ's Sake !
A Biblical fact about ones redemption/salvation !
Before the Elect sinner believed, and while yet dead in sin, they nevertheless had Redemption through the Blood of Christ with the forgiveness of sins according to Grace Riches Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
This means that before they believed the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13, they had been rescued or purchased from the debt of sin, which is death Rom 6:23, which also further means even as unconverted dead sinners, in enmity and unbelief, they could never go into the second death that we read about here Rev 2:11
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev 20:6,14
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The lake of fire is also the second death ! Remember when Jesus addressed the goats on His Left hand with these words Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Thats the second death ! Now none whom Christ died for and redeemed by His blood can take part in this "everlasting fire" because thats the second death, and all death is the result of sin Rom 6:23, and all whom He died for are redeemed from the penalty of sin, their sin debt has been cancelled . The word redemption in Eph 1:7 is the greek word apolytrōsis and means:
I.a releasing effected by payment of ransom
A.redemption, deliverance
B.liberation procured by the payment of a ransom
First and foremost they have been liberated from and or released from the dept of sin, Justified from it, because the same word is used here to make that claim Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus or His Blood:
The word Justified here also means to be declared guiltless ! That goes along with the forgiveness of sin Eph 1:7, and that word forgiveness is the word aphesis which means:
I.release from bondage or imprisonment
II.forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
Now what is the penalty of sin ? Rom 6:23
23 For the wages[cost,price,compensation] of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The redemption the elect sinner has while dead in sin, releases them from the price, compensation, penalty, cost of their sins !
All phases of death for sin has been abolished, in fact that is why they must be born again, to prove or give evidence that their redemption through Christ's blood cancelled out their sin debt of death ! That God has for Christ's blood sake on their behalf forgiven them Eph 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
You see that statement ? God has not forgiven the elect sinner because they repented, or because they believed, or because they made confession, no it was for Christ's sake ! This goes with Gods statement in the Prophets also Isa 43:25
I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
Because of the redemption the elect have through the Blood of Christ, they even as dead, rebellious sinners already have been delivered from the penalty of their sins, which is death. Even if they were to fall dead before God in a unrepentant state, they must be received into Heaven into the Kingdom of Glory, and never meet with the condemnation of the second death, for Christ's Sake !
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen to this comprehensive study on the redemption of God's Elect, the Body of Christ!
For Christ's sake God has forgiven them Eph. 4:32 KJV; 1 John 2:12,
And it was solely because of His Election of them in Christ before the foundation Eph. 1:4-7.
The same are Israel that God refers to in Is. 43:1 that God promised Salvation to Is. 45:17 and in Luke 1:68.
The Election of Grace, Christ's Sheep, are the only portion of humanity, a remnant,
who have redemption / salvation through Christ's Blood!
~~~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen, and Thanks for that quote of 1 Jn 2:12, very appropriate !
Nanja
Well-known member
It appears that Nanja and B57 have canceled you out.
beloved57
Well-known member
Post 1734 did you read it ?
beloved57
Well-known member
When we were in the flesh !
When we were in the flesh !
Rom 7:5
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Paul here is writing to believers, however he does point them back to a condition they were in prior to becoming believers, which condition is, they were being in the flesh, which means nothing but being in a natural unregenerate state, and in unbelief, its how we are born into this world naturally from our mothers womb Jn 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
And the truth is, not one of us in the flesh can do anything to please God Rom 8:8
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
They that are in the flesh, like we are were by nature Rom 7:5
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
While in that state, we cannot have Faith in God, which pleases Him Heb 11:6, which comes to Him, Seeking Him !
So if any of us do truly come to God by Faith which pleases Him per Heb 11:6, its because we were in the Spirit and not in the flesh Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Coming to God by Faith which pleases Him is to be led of the Spirit Rom 8:14
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. See Gal 3:26
We are only in the Spirit after having been Born again by the Spirit, and a True believer, that is one who has believed the Gospel of their Salvation, having been sealed unto the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit of promise Eph 1:13-14, such a one cannot be in the flesh, because the Spirit by which they were sealed, was in them Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
But as long as we are in the flesh, we cannot please God, not until we are born of the Spirit !
When we were in the flesh !
Rom 7:5
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Paul here is writing to believers, however he does point them back to a condition they were in prior to becoming believers, which condition is, they were being in the flesh, which means nothing but being in a natural unregenerate state, and in unbelief, its how we are born into this world naturally from our mothers womb Jn 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
And the truth is, not one of us in the flesh can do anything to please God Rom 8:8
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
They that are in the flesh, like we are were by nature Rom 7:5
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
While in that state, we cannot have Faith in God, which pleases Him Heb 11:6, which comes to Him, Seeking Him !
So if any of us do truly come to God by Faith which pleases Him per Heb 11:6, its because we were in the Spirit and not in the flesh Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Coming to God by Faith which pleases Him is to be led of the Spirit Rom 8:14
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. See Gal 3:26
We are only in the Spirit after having been Born again by the Spirit, and a True believer, that is one who has believed the Gospel of their Salvation, having been sealed unto the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit of promise Eph 1:13-14, such a one cannot be in the flesh, because the Spirit by which they were sealed, was in them Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
But as long as we are in the flesh, we cannot please God, not until we are born of the Spirit !