Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[beloved57]

Cannot continue in sin ! 2

Cannot continue in sin ! 2

You see, only the Spiritually dead man cannot believe and so remains in sin/unbelief, or as a servant of sin. To be in unbelief is to be a servant of sin, thats why Paul wrote this Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed/believed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Obeyed here is the equivalent of believing from the heart that form of doctrine which is the Gospel !

So to be in unbelief of the Gospel is being a servant of sin ! Now what Paul is saying in Rom 6:4, that the believers newness of life is a corresponding reflection to Christ's resurrection from the dead on their behalf, also remember that His resurrection from the dead verified their Justification Rom 4:25, and in that as He died to sin once, when He arose, He Liveth unto God Rom 6:10

10 For in that he died[for the sins of His sheep], he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

And this newness of life they receive from Christ, and begin to live by Faith [Faith is the evidence of new life out of unbelief and death] since its not even possible to Live unto God without Faith !

 

[eddie17]

There is no such thing as free will,go and do your research you might be suprised.

 

[beloved57]

Are these under condemnation also ?

Are these under condemnation also ?

Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Lets be more specific with the question, are the Elect of God, the Sheep in a state of Unregeneracy and unbelief, are they as the non elect, the goats under the sentence of condemnation by God ? Are they already condemned ? The answer is absolutely NO, and here's why. The sentence of condemnation for their sins and unbelief included has been laid upon Christ for Him to die for it. See Christ died because He was under the Condemnation of the sins, offences, trespasses of those He died for. The Cross was actually the punishment of all their sins and their condemnation. The Lord Jesus Christ hath taken away, removed from God's sight all their condemnation;

Wheras for the goats, the non elect He has not, He never knew them ! Yes in a state Unregeneracy and unbelief and stubbornness the elect are not condemned, in fact they are reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10 !

Yes in themselves, in a unregenerate state the elect do sin, are in themselves guilty of sin, their hearts even condemn them for the same 1 Jn 3:20, and they are most deserving of Gods condemnation and wrath as others are [ the non elect goats], but yet for Christ's Sake God cannot condemned them without being guilty of injustice.

But this is not true of the non elect during unregenercy, they are condemned in that state and under Gods [unpropitiated,unappeased] wrath ! Jn 3:18,36 !

BTW if any be under Gods wrath Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Then that automatically means they don't belong to this World 1 Jn 2:2

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Its impossible for the wrath of God to be abiding on one, who Christ has been the propitiation for their sins ! To say so would be a contradiction !

 

[Nanja]

Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Lets be more specific with the question, are the Elect of God, the Sheep in a state of Unregeneracy and unbelief, are they as the non elect, the goats under the sentence of condemnation by God ? Are they already condemned ? The answer is absolutely NO, and here's why. The sentence of condemnation for their sins and unbelief included has been laid upon Christ for Him to die for it. See Christ died because He was under the Condemnation of the sins, offences, trespasses of those He died for. The Cross was actually the punishment of all their sins and their condemnation. The Lord Jesus Christ hath taken away, removed from God's sight all their condemnation;

Wheras for the goats, the non elect He has not, He never knew them ! Yes in a state Unregeneracy and unbelief and stubbornness the elect are not condemned, in fact they are reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10 !

Yes in themselves, in a unregenerate state the elect do sin, are in themselves guilty of sin, their hearts even condemn them for the same 1 Jn 3:20, and they are most deserving of Gods condemnation and wrath as others are [ the non elect goats], but yet for Christ's Sake God cannot condemned them without being guilty of injustice.

But this is not true of the non elect during unregenercy, they are condemned in that state and under Gods [unpropitiated,unappeased] wrath ! Jn 3:18,36 !

BTW if any be under Gods wrath Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Then that automatically means they don't belong to this World 1 Jn 2:2

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Its impossible for the wrath of God to be abiding on one, who Christ has been the propitiation for their sins ! To say so would be a contradiction !

The Elect were never under God's wrath at any time, they were always under His Favor and Grace
because Christ's Death Satisfied God's Wrath for them; their sins were imputed to their Surety Heb. 7:22
in their behalf John 10:11, 15.

Christ's Sheep, the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5, make up the whole World of 1 John 2:2;
from every nation, kindred and tongue Rev. 5:9. God's Grace was given them, in Christ Jesus,
before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9 to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:7.


But the non-elect have always been condemned, and their refusal to believe the Gospel
of God's Electing Grace Eph. 1:4-6 bears evidence of that fact. They are those who were
before ordained to be condemned; predestined to Hell Jude 1:4; cursed Mat. 25:41.


So, whether one is a Sheep or a goat, it was never based on any person's own choosing to believe, or not to believe;
or anything else he may do. But it was all established and determined according to the Purpose of God in Eternity.

~~~~~

 

[Bright Raven]

The Elect were never under God's wrath at any time, they were always under His Favor and Grace
because Christ's Death Satisfied God's Wrath for them; their sins were imputed to their Surety Heb. 7:22
in their behalf John 10:11, 15.

Christ's Sheep, the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5, make up the whole World of 1 John 2:2;
from every nation, kindred and tongue Rev. 5:9. God's Grace was given them, in Christ Jesus,
before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9 to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:7.


But the non-elect have always been condemned, and their refusal to believe the Gospel
of God's Electing Grace Eph. 1:4-6 bears evidence of that fact. They are those who were
before ordained to be condemned; predestined to Hell Jude 1:4; cursed Mat. 25:41.


So, whether one is a Sheep or a goat, it was never based on any person's own choosing to believe, or not to believe;
or anything else he may do. But it was all established and determined according to the Purpose of God in Eternity.

~~~~~

That is so wrong to believe that man does not have a choice in his salvation. Romans 10:13

 

[beloved57]

The Elect were never under God's wrath at any time, they were always under His Favor and Grace
because Christ's Death Satisfied God's Wrath for them; their sins were imputed to their Surety Heb. 7:22
in their behalf John 10:11, 15.

Christ's Sheep, the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5, make up the whole World of 1 John 2:2;
from every nation, kindred and tongue Rev. 5:9. God's Grace was given them, in Christ Jesus,
before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9 to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:7.


But the non-elect have always been condemned, and their refusal to believe the Gospel
of God's Electing Grace Eph. 1:4-6 bears evidence of that fact. They are those who were
before ordained to be condemned; predestined to Hell Jude 1:4; cursed Mat. 25:41.


So, whether one is a Sheep or a goat, it was never based on any person's own choosing to believe, or not to believe;
or anything else he may do. But it was all established and determined according to the Purpose of God in Eternity.

~~~~~

Amen, you have testified to the Gospel of Truth!

 

[beloved57]

He is the propitiation for our sins:

He is the propitiation for our sins:

1 Jn 2:1-2

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Now many in false religion have hijacked this verse to teach the lie, that it states, Jesus Christ has died for all mankind without exception, but folks that again is a lie, and heres why ! The world here or the whole world, is a world of individuals [both jew and gentile] that Gods Wrath against them for their sins has been propitiated, or appeased, in fact He is at Peace with them, all causes for His Wrath against them has been taken away, and we know this is not the case with all men without exception because of simple scriptures like Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

That word abideth is the greek word menó and means:

I remain, abide, stay, wait; with acc: I wait for, await.

The wrath of God is remaining or staying upon that one ! Its also in the present tense !

These individuals are permanently remaining under Gods Wrath, so it is absolutely impossible for anyone of them can be part of that Whole World of 1 Jn 2:2

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Look, Gods wrath comes upon men for one just reason, sins Eph 5:5-6

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Because of what things cometh the wrath of God ? Look at the List of things in Vs 5, it tells you, those are sins !

Yet another scripture to consider is Rom 1:18

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

These men cannot possibly be of the world of 1 Jn 2:2, no way ! Because Gods wrath for them against their ungodliness [Rom 5:6] and unrighteousness [1 Pet 3:18] it has already fell upon Christ on their behalf, and so God in Justice is merciful unto their unrighteousness Heb 8:12

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

See that ? He is Merciful to their sins, not wrathful !

 

[beloved57]

He is the propitiation for our sins: 2

He is the propitiation for our sins: 2

Now I know many shall object and argue, that those under Gods wrath in Jn 3:36 are unbelievers, those who have no faith, which is True, but thats why they remain unbelievers, because they are under Gods wrath. You see its not faith that propitiate Gods wrath against one sins, unless we are talking about the Faith/Faithfulness of Jesus Christ when He satisfied Gods Law and Justice for our sins, hence He is propitiated by Christ's faithfulness unto death, and heres why.

You see those Christ died for have their sins against God propitiated by His death, because even while they are active enemies in their minds, even unbelievers, they have been nevertheless reconciled to God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And by that, God is at Peace with them for Christs sake Col 1:20

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

[beloved57]

He is the propitiation for our sins: 3

He is the propitiation for our sins: 3

Now this being reconciled to God by the death of Christ while being enemies/unbelievers, this could not be True if indeed they were under Gods Wrath as unbelievers as these are Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

You see, it cant be both, one cannot be both reconciled to God as a unbelieving enemy, and under His wrath as a unbelieving enemy ! So the difference must be the death of Christ for one and not the other. This means that the reconciled enemy by the death of Christ has already had Christ's Meritorious Death applied to their case and cause, while being an enemy ! This proves that faith in Christ is not necessary to have Christ's Death applied to them personally ! The death of Christ has to have been already applied since they are reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers, hence showing that God has for them been propitiated ! That cannot be true however of those in Jn 3:36 under Gods wrath !

 

[beloved57]

He is the propitiation for our sins: 4

He is the propitiation for our sins: 4

Now understand this, reconciliation and propitiation are two sides of the same coin, the very same blessing, for the word reconciliation in Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Tis the greek word hilaskomai and means:


I.to render one's self, to appease, conciliate to one's self

A.to become propitious, be placated or appeased


B.to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful



II.to expiate, make propitiation for

Thats why one is reconciled to God while enemies because God for them by Christ's death has been appeased, placated, propitiated ! And of course the word is akin to hilasmós which means:

"propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin") – properly, to extend propitiation, showing mercy by satisfying (literally, propitiating) the wrath of God on sin; "to conciliate, appease,

And it also properly means to have mercy on, show favor to, pardon and forgive.

He gives us this along with Christ because Christ satisfied both Law and Justice Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

That word give charizomai means:

I show favor to, (b) I pardon, forgive, (c) I show kindness.

, to extend favor ("grace"), freely give favor to grant forgiveness (pardon).

("favor that cancels") is used of God giving His grace to pardon. This is freely done and therefore not based on any merit of the one receiving forgiveness.

literally means, "to exercise grace, freely show favor," i.e. willingly ("graciously") bestow.]

This Favor, Blessing and Pardon comes with God delivering up His Son for us Rom 8:32 ! Note: This also speaks to Justification ,acquittal !

So to be reconciled as enemies Rom 5:10, God has had His wrath appeased, satisfied, propitiated, and that while us being enemies and unbelievers, So consequently those unbelievers in Jn 3:36, which are under Gods wrath, they cannot be of those #1 Reconciled to God by Christ's death, while enemies, nor #2 be of those who belong to the whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 !

 

[Nanja]

Now understand this, reconciliation and propitiation are two sides of the same coin, the very same blessing, for the word reconciliation in Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Tis the greek word hilaskomai and means:


I.to render one's self, to appease, conciliate to one's self

A.to become propitious, be placated or appeased


B.to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful



II.to expiate, make propitiation for

Thats why one is reconciled to God while enemies because God for them by Christ's death has been appeased, placated, propitiated ! And of course the word is akin to hilasmós which means:

"propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin") – properly, to extend propitiation, showing mercy by satisfying (literally, propitiating) the wrath of God on sin; "to conciliate, appease,

And it also properly means to have mercy on, show favor to, pardon and forgive.

He gives us this along with Christ because Christ satisfied both Law and Justice Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

That word give charizomai means:

I show favor to, (b) I pardon, forgive, (c) I show kindness.

, to extend favor ("grace"), freely give favor to grant forgiveness (pardon).

("favor that cancels") is used of God giving His grace to pardon. This is freely done and therefore not based on any merit of the one receiving forgiveness.

literally means, "to exercise grace, freely show favor," i.e. willingly ("graciously") bestow.]

This Favor, Blessing and Pardon comes with God delivering up His Son for us Rom 8:32 ! Note: This also speaks to Justification ,acquittal !

So to be reconciled as enemies Rom 5:10, God has had His wrath appeased, satisfied, propitiated, and that while us being enemies and unbelievers, So consequently those unbelievers in Jn 3:36, which are under Gods wrath, they cannot be of those #1 Reconciled to God by Christ's death, while enemies, nor #2 be of those who belong to the whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 !

In this 4-Part study, "He is the propitiation for our sins", you have perfectly illustrated the Doctrine of
Limited Atonement right from the scriptures, for those who have been given ears to hear Prov. 20:12:
The kind of hearing that's only made possible when one has been given Spiritual Life; is Born of God 1 Cor. 2:14: John 8:47!

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

In this 4-Part study, "He is the propitiation for our sins", you have perfectly illustrated the Doctrine of
Limited Atonement right from the scriptures, for those who have been given ears to hear Prov. 20:12:
The kind of hearing that's only made possible when one has been given Spiritual Life; is Born of God 1 Cor. 2:14: John 8:47!

~~~~~

Amen, God purposed it to be a blessing for you!

 

[Nanja]

Amen, God purposed it to be a blessing for you!

Yep, Praise the Lord, that's the story of my Life! ☺

~~~~~

 

[Shasta]

In Calvin's fantasy world the blasphemies of the Man of Sin were scripted by God before the foundation of the world.

 

[Shasta]

Now this being reconciled to God by the death of Christ while being enemies/unbelievers, this could not be True if indeed they were under Gods Wrath as unbelievers as these are Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

You see, it cant be both, one cannot be both reconciled to God as a unbelieving enemy, and under His wrath as a unbelieving enemy ! So the difference must be the death of Christ for one and not the other. This means that the reconciled enemy by the death of Christ has already had Christ's Meritorious Death applied to their case and cause, while being an enemy ! This proves that faith in Christ is not necessary to have Christ's Death applied to them personally ! The death of Christ has to have been already applied since they are reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers, hence showing that God has for them been propitiated ! That cannot be true however of those in Jn 3:36 under Gods wrath !

Why do you not read the verse properly.

36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. (John 3:36).

In this verse the Greek word for "not obey" is apeithon Here is the word in context:
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/3-36.htm and here is the definition in

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
Original Word: ἀπειθέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apeitheó
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o)
Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal
Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.

http://biblehub.com/greek/544.htm

Here Jesus equates faith with obedience showing that salvation is not involuntary. The human will has to be involved in the process. He is also not saying that they do not believe or submit BECAUSE they are children of wrath. It is because they refuse to believe that they remain children of wrath. The moral choice of unbelief prevents God from changing them

 

[beloved57]

Why do you not read the verse properly.

36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. (John 3:36).

In this verse the Greek word for "not obey" is apeithon Here is the word in context:
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/3-36.htm and here is the definition in

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
Original Word: ἀπειθέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apeitheó
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o)
Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal
Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.

http://biblehub.com/greek/544.htm

Here Jesus equates faith with obedience showing that salvation is not involuntary. The human will has to be involved in the process. He is also not saying that they do not believe or submit BECAUSE they are children of wrath. It is because they refuse to believe that they remain children of wrath. The moral choice of unbelief prevents God from changing them

You quoted a post of mine, did you understand the points I made with scripture?

 

[Shasta]

You quoted a post of mine, did you understand the points I made with scripture?

I am saying this verse does not mean what you say it does.

Your opinion is that the majority of mankind are children of wrath because of God's pre-determined will and that is the reason they do not believe. Isn't that an accurate description of your belief?

 

[Shasta]

You see, only the Spiritually dead man cannot believe and so remains in sin/unbelief, or as a servant of sin. To be in unbelief is to be a servant of sin, thats why Paul wrote this Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed/believed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Obeyed here is the equivalent of believing from the heart that form of doctrine which is the Gospel !

So to be in unbelief of the Gospel is being a servant of sin ! Now what Paul is saying in Rom 6:4, that the believers newness of life is a corresponding reflection to Christ's resurrection from the dead on their behalf, also remember that His resurrection from the dead verified their Justification Rom 4:25, and in that as He died to sin once, when He arose, He Liveth unto God Rom 6:10

10 For in that he died[for the sins of His sheep], he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

And this newness of life they receive from Christ, and begin to live by Faith [Faith is the evidence of new life out of unbelief and death] since its not even possible to Live unto God without Faith !

I agree, to become a believer we must obey/have faith (which are two sides of the same coin). Paul calls it the "obedience of faith." Rebellion is the cause of blindness not a mere lack of understanding. Even if we were to affirm the right beliefs it would be meaningless without Christ reigning in our souls. This is why the Holy Spirit was sent - to draw ALL men to Him. His method is convicting the conscience and persuading the mind in order to bring men to repentance and from there into life.

He does not convert men involuntarily. He treats men as though they are free moral agents. While it is true that no one comes to the Jesus unless the Father draws him. Being drawn does not automatically secure their salvation because the Bible says we can resist, grieve and quench the Holy Spirit.

 

[beloved57]

I am saying this verse does not mean what you say it does.

Your opinion is that the majority of mankind are children of wrath because of God's pre-determined will and that is the reason they do not believe. Isn't that an accurate description of your belief?

Did you understand the points I made with scripture? I did not ask you to agree with them!

 

[beloved57]

I agree, to become a believer we must obey/have faith (which are two sides of the same coin). Paul calls it the "obedience of faith." Rebellion is the cause of blindness not a mere lack of understanding. Even if we were to affirm the right beliefs it would be meaningless without Christ reigning in our souls. This is why the Holy Spirit was sent - to draw ALL men to Him. His method is convicting the conscience and persuading the mind in order to bring men to repentance and from there into life.

He does not convert men involuntarily. He treats men as though they are free moral agents. While it is true that no one comes to the Jesus unless the Father draws him. Being drawn does not automatically secure their salvation because the Bible says we can resist, grieve and quench the Holy Spirit.

You quoted a post of mine here, did you understand the points I made?