beloved57
Well-known member
Tulip is the Gospel which you reject, calling it calvinism is not going to give you a pass !
Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Tulip is the Gospel which you reject, calling it calvinism is not going to give you a pass !
Cross Reference
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But he got it right nevertheless, correct? Go figure.
Cross Reference
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The Tulip is a deadly flower, and if ingested will obscure the truth for those who devour it!!
SeraphimsCherub
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I'm really not to concerned about what Calvin had to say about the gospel. But one thing i do no from my own experience in life. Is that "freewill" is a totally bogus doctrine and has no business being added to the ONE and ONLY SUPERNATURAL RELIGION OF GOD. Yeah...better yet,take a wide look around you,including yourself in the flesh,and look how "free" everyone is. We're even slaves to a perpetual debate over the GOD who isn't the Author of confusion,and is The Prince of "Peace".
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
BigBoof1959
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Genesis 3 is not explicit in explaining the results of the incident in question. The serpent ("nachash" in Hebrew,the root word means "enchanter, fortune teller") is the one who said that eating of the tree would allow them to know good and evil. The first thing the text states as a result of their eating was that they knew they were naked. No matter how you look at Genesis 3:22, the first result was the knowledge of their nakedness.
Verse 22 is interesting if you look at it closely. The Lord says "Behold them man has become like one of us...". (echad is the Hebrew word translated as "one" here) Why doesn't it just say "Behold the man has become like us..."? Could it be that the Lord is talking to a group of "elohim" here? I have heard people say that the "us" in this verse is referring to the 3 members of the trinity, but I don't think that is the case, one reason being the fact that if God was trying to say that the man had become like Himself ('us' as a trinity) there is a much simpler way to do it. The Hebrew letter kaf denoting the idea of "like" or "similar to" followed by the letters mem-nun-vav (men-oo , meaning "us") would read in English - "like us". That is not the way it is written in Genesis 3:22 though. There is an extra mem before the "men-oo". Mi-men-oo. The extra mem denotes the idea of separation from an origin within a group. In English it would read "from". In fact the Hebrew phrase mi-men-oo is found in Genesis 2:17, 3:3, 3:5, 3:11, etc. If this part of Genesis 3:22 were translated literally, with no preconceived doctrinal bias to shade the translation, it might read "Behold the man has become like one from among us...". The fact that the Hebrew word 'echad', meaning "one" is found in front of this phrase makes it even clearer that there is a particular "one" that is being referred to. Many scholars believe that the "us" referred to in this verse is the "divine council" that is hinted at many places in the bible. (Michael Heiser has a website that deals in depth with the biblical references to this topic.)
The fact that the text says the first thing Adam and Eve knew after eating the fruit was an awareness of their nakedness; and the way that Genesis 3:22 is constructed in Hebrew, leads me to believe that Adam and Eve "knew" good and evil after eating of the forbidden fruit, but this knowledge of good and evil was not like God's knowledge of the same. They had now become like satan, the power working through the nachash, knowing good and evil the same way he did.
The word "knowing" as in "knowing good and evil" is also more than intellectually knowing about something, or understanding something. It also means to experience what is known. Another thing about the forbidden tree - it is not the tree of the knowledge of good or evil, it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This tree has them joined together.
SeraphimsCherub
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The only problem with that,is that Lucifer/Satan is a fallen,once anointed cherub{very high angelic being}.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword {The Eternal Word of GOD}which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.{the Cross of CHRIST}
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
What are you suggesting...that the elohims are something different than angelic beings. Are "gods" different that holy angels,and fallen angels?? I'm not saying that what your saying doesn't have any plausibility.
beloved57
Well-known member
You are talking about the Gospel of God's Grace you know !
beloved57
Well-known member
Sure and Calvin wrote the gospel.
TULIP is a flower. Nothing more.
You can call it calvin all you want, but it is the Gospel of God's Grace which you despise !
And, you of course don't know what you're talking about!!!!
And you're a fanatic for untruth!!
SeraphimsCherub
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And of course let us bow unto thee because you do right?? Freewill totally destroys the Divine purpose,and work for which CHRIST was slaughtered on a tree to give HIS HOLY SPIRIT!!!! You boast in a work which is not your own but the SPIRIT'S!
SeraphimsCherub
New member
"If the natural man has a free will to believe the gospel, then why does he need grace? If his will is naturally free then it would do away with the need for grace altogether...To teach that the natural man has a free will overthrows the gospel ... it is precisely because man is in bondage that he needs Christ to set him free." (John 8:34, 36)
- John Hendryx
"Free-will or Free-grace?; The Bible says that men are born again, not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God (John 1:13); that it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy (Rom 9;16); the work of faith is the operation of God according to the exceeding greatness of his power, who works in man both to will and to do of his own good pleasure." (Phil 2:13)
p>"Free will I have often heard of, but I have never seen it. I have always met with will, and plenty of it, but it has either been led captive by sin or held in the blessed bonds of grace."
- C. H. Spurgeon
"All the passages in the Holy Scriptures that mention assistance are they that do away with "free-will", and these are countless ... For grace is needed, and the help of grace is given, because "free-will" can do nothing."
- Martin Luther, Bondage of the Will, pg. 270
If any man doth ascribe of salvation, even the very least, to the free will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright.
- Martin Luther
"...human will does not by liberty obtain grace, but by grace obtains liberty."
- John Calvin
Blessings...
SC
- John Hendryx
"Free-will or Free-grace?; The Bible says that men are born again, not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God (John 1:13); that it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy (Rom 9;16); the work of faith is the operation of God according to the exceeding greatness of his power, who works in man both to will and to do of his own good pleasure." (Phil 2:13)
p>"Free will I have often heard of, but I have never seen it. I have always met with will, and plenty of it, but it has either been led captive by sin or held in the blessed bonds of grace."
- C. H. Spurgeon
"All the passages in the Holy Scriptures that mention assistance are they that do away with "free-will", and these are countless ... For grace is needed, and the help of grace is given, because "free-will" can do nothing."
- Martin Luther, Bondage of the Will, pg. 270
If any man doth ascribe of salvation, even the very least, to the free will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright.
- Martin Luther
"...human will does not by liberty obtain grace, but by grace obtains liberty."
- John Calvin
Blessings...
SC
beloved57
Well-known member
See ya at the Judgment !
SeraphimsCherub
New member
All the disobedience of Israel in the desert 40 years,and the rest of humanity,Jew,and Gentile is summed up in this one verse way back in Deut.
Deu 29:3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
Deu 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
Blessings...
SC
Deu 29:3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
Deu 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
Blessings...
SC
I have no problem with what you stated here!! I know you to be a "Calvinist extremest" and religious "crackpot" who, no one in their
right mind would listen to!!
You ramble and rave and seem emotionally unstable!! So, I don't
take anything you say as, sane, nor truth-worthy!! You have "spun a web" of false teaching on this forum and you sit there and what to, devour all the truth out of the environment!!
God's Truth
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So good to hear that, thanks for blessing me.
God's Truth
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You went out of your way to try to disprove what God says in the scriptures!
The Bible does NOT say Adam and Eve became like Satan knowing good and evil. You go against what the scriptures do say.
BigBoof1959
New member
I was saying that it is possible that the "us" in the verse is not referring to the trinity of God with a capital G, but is instead referring to a group of angels or spiritual rulers that are agents that the Lord put in charge of administering for Him - a divine council. It might be that one of the members of that council is what the "echad" is pointing out . Hebrew is not very precise and the way a lot of the O.T. texts are worded so sparsely, with many details left out, it can be hard to figure out what is being said. Even people who grow up with the language and become scholars have arguments about what some of the passages mean. But it helps if you look at all of the bible for hints and inferences. (No wonder Paul said we see in a mirror dimly. The word "dimly is where we get our word enigma from) A few years ago I read all the material Mike Heiser had on his website about his research on the divine council and many other subjects. He is a scholar in Hebrew and several other near eastern languages, as well as on the theology of the Jews during the inter-testament period. If I get some time, I would like to go back and read up on this again. He also has a lot of information on a variety of biblical subjects.
The bible doesn't say exactly if or how God "knows" good and evil. I don't know if there are varying degrees of both good and evil, but Genesis 1:31 implies that good can be "very good". If evil does the same, maybe the ability to handle it would vary according to the one involved. It would seem that God could handle the extreme of both. His council members and mankind probably not.
No! I only have a problem with your, "Hyper-Calvinist" belief system!! You tend to go, "way over board," with your statements and outrageous opinions!! You're an extremist religious zealot that preaches untruths that don't stand the test of Scripture!!!!!