Free Will

Nanja

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Nanja, something I thought of this morning just as I was waking up...

In Genesis, God told Adam and Eve (and all of humanity) to be fruitful and multiply. It was a command.

So what about the women who don't or even cannot have children? They cannot be fruitful or multiply. So are they outside of God's will?

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Whatever the inhabitants of the earth do or do not do is exactly as God has Willed.

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
 

JudgeRightly

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Whatever the inhabitants of the earth do or do not do is exactly as God has Willed.

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
So God is schizophrenic? He commands one thing, but wills another?

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JudgeRightly

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Whatever the inhabitants of the earth do or do not do is exactly as God has Willed.

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Also, Even that verse says that "God does what He wills," and that He is a powerful God who when His mind is made up, no one could change his mind. Not "man does what God wills." You always seem to fail to make that distinction.

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JudgeRightly

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Job 23:13-14
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Also, Even that verse says that "God does what He wills," and that He is a powerful God who when His mind is made up, no one could change his mind. Not "man does what God wills." You always seem to fail to make that distinction.

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TulipBee

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I didn't know where else to put this, but in the time of Adam and Eve, when Eve was instructed to eat the Apple, did that mean the devil gave her the free will to do it? Or does it mean he was opening eves awareness to do things she wasn't instructed to do, like disobeying God (much like he did), and in a way exercising her free will?

All in all, who gave us free will, God who created us with that capacity , or the devil who let the early humans understand we had that capacity?

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We have free will inside our bubble but God moves the bubble. We go where God moves it while we're free to move around inside the bubble.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Limited freedom, of course,...but free to choose still.......

Limited freedom, of course,...but free to choose still.......

We have free will inside our bubble but God moves the bubble. We go where God moves it while we're free to move around inside the bubble.

Of course our freedom of choice is limited, I don't think anyone is denying that, but it exists nonetheless within any given context, where our volition is free to determine or choose among multiple choices. We are limited to situational-contexts in space and time, circumstantially speaking. I see some degree of libertarian freedom existing, even given these conditioning or limiting factors bearing upon consciousness.

118:7.1 The function of Creator will and creature will, in the grand universe, operates within the limits, and in accordance with the possibilities, established by the Master Architects. This foreordination of these maximum limits does not, however, in the least abridge the sovereignty of creature will within these boundaries. Neither does ultimate foreknowledge — full allowance for all finite choice — constitute an abrogation of finite volition. A mature and farseeing human being might be able to forecast the decision of some younger associate most accurately, but this foreknowledge takes nothing away from the freedom and genuineness of the decision itself. The Gods have wisely limited the range of the action of immature will, but it is true will, nonetheless, within these defined limits.

I think the Urantia Book gives a good description of 'free will' and 'predestination' (see here too), and over-all combines some aspects of both the Open View and Process Theology :) - nevertheless as I've shared in the other thread too,....and has been affirmed by other theologians/philosophers...'foreknowledge' does not need to restrict or nullify genuine freedom of choice. One thing that this view may challenge is the classical theist view of God's perfect omniscience, since while 'God' certainly knows all potentials, possibilities and probabilities,...he is limited in his knowledge of some future events regarding individuals, since they can elect to choose something that cannot be actually known until they choose it. - of course those familiar with Open Theism, understand some of the logic and rational behind this observation. In other words, the key here is that 'God truly knows all that is knowable',...but some things cannot be known until their potential or possibility is actualized in the present time, where it is then an 'actual reality', since this as far as individual soul's go, is finally determined by one's own volition.
 

TulipBee

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Of course our freedom of choice is limited, I don't think anyone is denying that, but it exists nonetheless within any given context, where our volition is free to determine or choose among multiple choices. We are limited to situational-contexts in space and time, circumstantially speaking. I see some degree of libertarian freedom existing, even given these conditioning or limiting factors bearing upon consciousness.



I think the Urantia Book gives a good description of 'free will' and 'predestination' (see here too), and over-all combines some aspects of both the Open View and Process Theology :) - nevertheless as I've shared in the other thread too,....and has been affirmed by other theologians/philosophers...'foreknowledge' does not need to restrict or nullify genuine freedom of choice. One thing that this view may challenge is the classical theist view of God's perfect omniscience, since while 'God' certainly knows all potentials, possibilities and probabilities,...he is limited in his knowledge of some future events regarding individuals, since they can elect to choose something that cannot be actually known until they choose it. - of course those familiar with Open Theism, understand some of the logic and rational behind this observation. In other words, the key here is that 'God truly knows all that is knowable',...but some things cannot be known until their potential or possibility is actualized in the present time, where it is then an 'actual reality', since this as far as individual soul's go, is finally determined by one's own volition.

You marvel unlimited free will
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
I have yet to see a scripture that says man has a freewill!

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And as long as you are blinded by your own encrusted preconceived theology, grid-locking your soul, you will not be able to see the clear passages already shared with you so many times, over and over and over and over in this thread and elsewhere........until you actually open your eyes and seriously research the scriptures, respect modern day scientific discoveries, and then acknowledge the fact of free will in every day life experience. Since you deny these, there is really no helping you out, until you actually engage honest investigation, afresh...with an open mind. Until then,....enjoy your enclosure.

You are responsible.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
You say that like wanting to not basically be a slave of the will is a bad thing

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Hi Aetheryn :)

Hope you are happy with the thread so far,...we can always try to keep it moving in a positive direction. In another thread 'Calvinism's Nazi God'...I was going to expound more on 'foreknowledge' and how that relates to 'free will', if 'foreknowledge' abrogates genuine free will. Perhaps I will recourse that dialogue back into this one,...we'll see.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
And as long as you are blinded by your own encrusted preconceived theology, grid-locking your soul, you will not be able to see the clear passages already shared with you so many times, over and over and over and over in this thread and elsewhere........until you actually open your eyes and seriously research the scriptures, respect modern day scientific discoveries, and then acknowledge the fact of free will in every day life experience. Since you deny these, there is really no helping you out, until you actually engage honest investigation, afresh...with an open mind. Until then,....enjoy your enclosure.

You are responsible.

Rubbish !
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Rubbish

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Don't forget,....the 'God' of heaven and earth, whom he calls to be witnesses, sets before you blessings or cursings, life or death,....and says to CHOOSE Life. This 'God' per the word you deem to be God's very word (the Holy Bible),...decrees that you have a CHOICE. Did this 'God' lie? Now if you deny this, then you deny the decree of the LORD, to hold to your own preferred 'theology'. I'd reconsider your 'belief' in light of God's word.
 
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