Free Will

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
I set before you life or death,....you CHOOSE.................

I set before you life or death,....you CHOOSE.................

God does all things according to His Will Dan. 4:35.

That's Truth!

Naturally, so do we. Its one of the ways we are like God. Who here is contesting God doesn't act according to his will? No one is contesting the divine will. - the only reason you assume 'God' has a will, a conscious desire, an active directing MIND, is because we all have one, or are all tuned into one universal consciousness. This is the truth, actually...right here and now,...this living AWARENESS.

So you don't believe in the God of the scriptures,
but the god of your own understanding Eph. 4:18.

I believe God has given us freedom and the scriptures (also other wonderful and inspired religious writings, NOT just the Bible) also confirm this. Everyday ordinary life experience also proves this to us, unless you're just an android or some form of artificial intelligence. I'm choosing how to write this commentary at this very moment, letting it creatively flow as I conduct and orchestrate it. Forces both within and without may have some kind of influence, but my own consciousness is the 'medium'...and this 'medium' is but an individual window or 'point of view' within the greater Universal Consciousness.

See God has created some to be vessels of Wrath,
and some to be vessels of His Mercy Rom. 9:11; 22-23.

Unfortunately those verses are taken out of context, yet are a favorite for calvies. Remember the universal law of karma? It acts lawfully according to every thought, word and action.....what you reap, is what you sow....measure for measure....the law of compensation in this manner delivers whatever kind of harvest is planted,....whatever quality or kind of seed. Those who sow good, reap good, those who sow evil, evil. Its not a very complicated principle, working both individually and collectively. Its not so much that anything was 'predestined' or 'set in stone' at some point by a 'god' in eternity past, than it is but the working out of universal law (all thoughts, words and actions have their corresponding effects). This is why 'repentance' is fundamental to the transformation of the soul Godward. - all other rituals and assumed 'requirements' for 'salvation' are but adjuncts, helps or assessories.

Eph. 1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will

Of course the divine will has preordained by his infinite goodness (and by divine law/decree), the awesome destiny and eternal life potential and possibilities for all souls who will join with him and choose to DO his will, for such is the kingdom of the heavens. There is life, and there is death. These are the ultimates. Those who do not choose life and all life has to offer (in quality and quantity)...forfeit life. The absence of life is death. Remember the LORD sets before his people, blessings and cursing, life and death,...and instructs his people to CHOOSE life,....do you remember that in your scriptures? Your beloved Paul also instructs us to WALK in the Spirit, lest we fall back into our sinful, fleshly ways and habits. If you had no power to choose, how could you choose to walk in the Spirit, and crucify the flesh? How could you choose to listen to your Messiah, prophet or spiritual teacher,...if you have no power of choice?

What is the point of your life, if you have no freedom to participate with God, covenant with God, co-operate with God, enjoy a recipricol relationship with Deity. We do not deny God's power, will, consciousness and presence working in our lives, pervading all creation! - that power works and wills in us, of course, by God's spirit within us, and His anointing upon us, leading, guiding and teaching us. God is all in all. - but we also recognize a true gift of freedom, of original individual sovereignty... in the very spirit of God within our consciousness,...that does give us genuine freedom to choose and engage God. Life is an interactive engagement. - that can only be enterprised by an individualized consciousness that is truly free, even though choices are made within the limited dimensions and circumstances of space and time (obviously there are parameters to every event and its possibilities), and conditioned more or less by some influencing factors...but this does not annul that essence of 'free will' that 'God' himself respects and honors, given to each individual soul, in their ultimate choosing of life or death.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
That's not an appropriate, respectful or adequate response to my direct questions and the 'scriptures' I provided you with. That's evading the truth. By your lack of proper response and diversion tactic of asking the same lame question, you prove the deficiency of your theology, and the basic philosophical foundation behind it. Hopefully readers of these conversations will use them wisely to their own enlightenment.

Lol, it's the response you deserve to get until you provide the scripture that says man has a freewill. Men in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Response-ability.....USE IT......

Response-ability.....USE IT......

Lol, it's the response you deserve to get until you provide the scripture that says man has a freewill. Men in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8

Well, heavens to betsy.....nice to get a laugh out of you :) - it shows promise! But you still have homework to do, by actually considering and engaging my commentary. You're still doing the "dine and dash' gig, but not much dining. Its hard getting a little dribble of milk in, before your ready for the meat. Still you're stubborn as a mule.

Lets look at your Rom. 8:8,....a lot is pre-packaged there. If you read the whole chapter,...Paul is still instructing his readers to 'walk in the Spirit', to APPLY by faith, this condition or benefit of being "in Christ', to actually put the Spiritual implication or condition of one's status in Christ...into force. - since it entails setting your attention on the Spirit instead of the flesh,....do you see there is a choice before you? You can set your mind on the Spirit or the flesh, and will naturally by such rapport, experience the effect of such. This is why Paul is always instructing his carnal babies in the faith, to WALK in the Spirit. If Paul is instructing you to set your minds on the Spirit,...its obvious that it can be set on something else as well. - when Paul instructs his readers to do this, do they have a CHOICE in the matter?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Well, heavens to betsy.....nice to get a laugh out of you :) - it shows promise! But you still have homework to do, by actually considering and engaging my commentary. You're still doing the "dine and dash' gig, but not much dining. Its hard getting a little dribble of milk in, before your ready for the meat. Still you're stubborn as a mule.

Lets look at your Rom. 8:8,....a lot is pre-packaged there. If you read the whole chapter,...Paul is still instructing his readers to 'walk in the Spirit', to APPLY by faith, this condition or benefit of being "in Christ', to actually put the Spiritual implication or condition of one's status in Christ...into force. - since it entails setting your attention on the Spirit instead of the flesh,....do you see there is a choice before you? You can set your mind on the Spirit or the flesh, and will naturally by such rapport, experience the effect of such. This is why Paul is always instructing his carnal babies in the faith, to WALK in the Spirit. If Paul is instructing you to set your minds on the Spirit,...its obvious that it can be set on something else as well. - when Paul instructs his readers to do this, do they have a CHOICE in the matter?

Show me a scripture that says men have a freewill ? Also men in the flesh cant please God Rom 8:8 ! Now do men in the flesh have freewill to please God ?
 

God's Truth

New member
Those Christ lived and died for are made righteous by His one obedience Rom 5:19

Jesus obeyed so that we have someone to obey.

John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Jesus obeyed so that we have someone to obey.

John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.
False statements. Those Christ obeyed God for are made righteous by it Rom 5:19

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beloved57

Well-known member
I guess I am going to have to ignore you again. I believe that the way you are abusing some of the scriptures is a sin.
Those Christ died for, His obedience alone made them righteous Rom 5:19. Now run and hide from the Truth of God!

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Crucible

BANNED
Banned
If you truly believe in Christ, than you are saved. People act like Calvinism says otherwise- it offends them because it is not enough that they have God's grace, they want to be merited further with having found it and be the authors of their salvation.

They don't treat God as sovereign, but like a bull or law that they've placed their big, fat signature on- a Christian who obsesses over free will really obsesses over their own self righteousness.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
Then it's no reason to say the wrong way. You did anyway like any troll would do

Tulip Bee,

I'm bored. I am tired of using sarcasm tonite. Knowing full well that others will feast on your words here, I'm calling neutral ground with you.

Could you please explain why you don't believe we have free will?
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
Tulip Bee,

I'm bored. I am tired of using sarcasm tonite. Knowing full well that others will feast on your words here, I'm calling neutral ground with you.

Could you please explain why you don't believe we have free will?

We have free will but you don't know how to use it. Don't abuse it
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
If you truly believe in Christ, than you are saved. People act like Calvinism says otherwise- it offends them because it is not enough that they have God's grace, they want to be merited further with having found it and be the authors of their salvation.

They don't treat God as sovereign, but like a bull or law that they've placed their big, fat signature on- a Christian who obsesses over free will really obsesses over their own self righteousness.

Say that again... Erase TULIP... and... acknowledge Christ's words from John 6:29 and we can shake theological hands.
 
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