Free Will
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God's Truth
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I understand that you might not see what Calvinism entails.
Calvinists do claim that ALL are reprobate and hate God, and while in this state of hate and unbelief, God's Holy Spirit intervenes and causes them to be a believer and saved.
However, it is nowhere in the scriptures, in fact, it goes against the scriptures that say faith is from hearing, being taught, convinced, and persuaded; and that AFTER one has faith and obedience, Jesus chooses to save you.
Calvinism is against all those teachings.
God's Truth
New member
I know that is what they believe and that is what I said.
That is not the same as saying no one believes in God until He causes them to supernaturally.
God does not cause us to believe in Him supernaturally.
We come to believe in God by hearing the supernatural message.
I can easily refute Calvinism with scripture.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
It would be very wise of you to cease telling people wrong information about what Calvinists believe. You give incorrect answers regarding Reformed Theology quite often, which is a form of bearing false witness.
Calvinists do not believe all persons are reprobate. All humans are sinners, but not all are reprobate, and it is wrong for any Christian to declare or call another "reprobate" for no one has the right to so judge another as eternally lost.
God's Truth
New member
You added to God's Word. That scripture is about Gentiles being saved while enemies. I have proven it to you many times that it is about the UNcircumcised Gentiles.
Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
Did you read that?
The Gentiles were dead in their sins because they did not get circumcised and do the other cleaning works the Jews used to have to do.
The Gentiles did not do those things which means they did not come into the covenant with God. That is what made them enemies.
Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
Stop adding to the scriptures for they do not say that God saved the Gentiles while they did not believe in Him and even hated Him.
Jesus saving Gentiles while enemies means Jesus did not make them get circumcised before he would save them.
God's Truth
New member
You are not speaking the truth about the Holy Bible, and you are not speaking the truth about what John Calvin taught. If you are a spin off from something he taught then I am not interested in your altered beliefs and denial of what CALVIN taught.
If you teach NO ONE can believe in God without a Holy Spirit supernatural intervention---THEN YOU DO TEACH ALL ARE REPROBATE.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
This is another inaccurate answer as to what Calvinists believe and teach.
God the Holy Spirit causes a necessary regeneration of the soul, through His resurrection power, which precedes His gift of faith to believe. Spiritually dead sinners must first be brought to life, before they can hear and believe the Gospel message.
Yes, but regeneration precedes faith.
You cannot refute the Lord's teaching found in John 3:1-8. And you should stop trying . . .
beloved57
Well-known member
Because you don't have a scripture for that. It's a myth of man!
Nang
TOL Subscriber
You are bearing false witness . . .
I rebuke you, in the name of Jesus Christ, to repent from such accusations against His children.
beloved57
Well-known member
So you don't need to study that right?
beloved57
Well-known member
Give me a break!
No, I think it's pretty clear what the Bible says, which is that God had no idea that his people would offer up their children to Molech, let alone predestine them to do so.
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God's Truth
New member
Just because you deny the truth does not mean you proved anything.
THAT IS A SAVING you denier. And it is what I said!
What is wrong with you? That is what I have been saying.
God's Truth from the scriptures are disputed by Calvinists, but refuted by the Truth.
beloved57
Well-known member
Go study for yourself. Im not playing bible hopscotch with you.
God's Truth
New member
It is a sad web of confusion and entrapment for those in Calvinism.
I said plainly that Calvinists believe that no one can believe in God until God first saves them by supernatural means.
Faith is from God, from reading His powerful message, the Bible, the New Testament. It has the powerful message that saves. We do not get faith supernaturally, as many teach, but we get faith in a very human way, from reading the supernatural message!
2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
WE MUST HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD TO HAVE FAITH.
Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11
I said plainly that Calvinists believe that no one can believe in God until God first saves them by supernatural means.
Faith is from God, from reading His powerful message, the Bible, the New Testament. It has the powerful message that saves. We do not get faith supernaturally, as many teach, but we get faith in a very human way, from reading the supernatural message!
2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
WE MUST HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD TO HAVE FAITH.
Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11
God's Truth
New member
It is what you are doing. You rebuked yourself.
beloved57
Well-known member
Go study for yourself. Im not playing bible hopscotch with you.
God's Truth
New member
Calvinists teach that God supernaturally REGENERATES people with the Holy Spirit to cause them to believe!
Nang is going against my saying that because I say they say it is a saving.
Can we reason together?
Is it not a saving to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit?!
Of course it is!
However, God does NOT save us before we have faith.
God does NOT save UNBELIEVERS.
God does NOT supernaturally cause anyone to believe in Him by first saving/regenerating them.
Nang is going against my saying that because I say they say it is a saving.
Can we reason together?
Is it not a saving to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit?!
Of course it is!
However, God does NOT save us before we have faith.
God does NOT save UNBELIEVERS.
God does NOT supernaturally cause anyone to believe in Him by first saving/regenerating them.
beloved57
Well-known member
Lying. Those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His Death while they are enemies, hating and opposing God Rom 5:10