Free Will

[God's Truth]

Lying. Those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His Death while they are enemies, hating and opposing God Rom 5:10

God says we have to believe in Him before He saves us!

NOWHERE anywhere do the scriptures have a hidden message that says what Calvinism teaches, and that is that God supernaturally saves people without their knowing or wanting.

God does NOT regenerate/save people who do not believe in Him.

 

[Eagles Wings]

Calvinists teach that God supernaturally REGENERATES people with the Holy Spirit to cause them to believe!

Nang is going against my saying that because I say they say it is a saving.

Can we reason together?

Is it not a saving to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit?!

Of course it is!

However, God does NOT save us before we have faith.

God does NOT save UNBELIEVERS.

God does NOT supernaturally cause anyone to believe in Him by first saving/regenerating them.

Yes, He does, GT. I believed this before I'd even heard of Calvinism. I believe that being born-again of the Spirit, occurs before faith.

 

[Nang]

I said plainly that Calvinists believe that no one can believe in God until God first saves them by supernatural means.

By arguing in this way, you deny the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, that raises dead sinners to new spiritual life; changing and giving them new hearts; ears to hear, and new spiritual eyes to comprehend the Gospel message. I Corinthians 2:9-16

Faith is from God, from reading His powerful message, the Bible, the New Testament. It has the powerful message that saves. We do not get faith supernaturally, as many teach, but we get faith in a very human way, from reading the supernatural message!

Read I Corinthians 2:9-16 and comprehend that without first being resurrected to spiritual life, a sinner cannot believe the Gospel message. Regeneration precedes faith.

Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17.

And no one can hear the word while still dead in their sins. A sinner must first be changed and given ears to hear the Gospel preached, before they can comprehend and believe the Gospel message.

There are no mystical powers inherent in the Gospel message, that zaps people to life. Neither does the word ever implant itself into a rock-hard, wicked heart.

The heart must first be changed to receive the Word. The sinner must be gifted with new ears to hear, and their blindness must be reversed, so they can see (comprehend) the spiritual Truths of God. Regeneration is a resurrection; the old man is changed into a new creature, through the resurrection power of God . . in order that he might be justified by faith alone.

Otherwise, you are claiming that sinners must figure out Truth and save themselves through their old, tainted (noetic) intellect and reasoning powers.

Not so. Born again Christians are given new spiritual life and capacities, and as new creatures, they thereafter exhibit possessing "the mind of Christ." I Corinthians 2:16

Regeneration precedes faith and faith precedes obedience . . .

 

[Eagles Wings]

It would be very wise of you to cease telling people wrong information about what Calvinists believe. You give incorrect answers regarding Reformed Theology quite often, which is a form of bearing false witness.

Calvinists do not believe all persons are reprobate. All humans are sinners, but not all are reprobate, and it is wrong for any Christian to declare or call another "reprobate" for no one has the right to so judge another as eternally lost.

I completely agree with your assessment of bearing false witness. This is rampant here at TOL, regardless of the topic.

It has made me think more carefully about what I say to another.

A violation of the 7th commandment is serious indeed.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, He does, GT. I believed this before I'd even heard of Calvinism. I believe that being born-again of the Spirit, occurs before faith.

There is no such teaching in the Holy Bible that says God saves people BEFORE they have faith.

God tells us repeatedly that we must FIRST come to Him in faith and THEN He rewards us.

You are too easy to show the truth to, but only humbleness and complete reliance on what God says will you come out of false beliefs.

 

[Nang]

I completely agree with your assessment of bearing false witness. This is rampant here at TOL, regardless of the topic.

It has made me think more carefully about what I say to another.

A violation of the 7th commandment is serious indeed.

Husband and I learned this lesson years ago, and were convicted by the Lord, for posting and declaring another as being reprobate. It was (harshly) made clear to us that we did not have the right to judge the ultimate and eternal fate of any other sinners, no matter how wrong or foul they might appear, because we are only sinners, too. And God can save the worst sinners we meet, tomorrow, if He chooses.

Saved by the grace of God . . and leaving final judgment of souls to God, alone!

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Give me a break!

 

[Eagles Wings]

There is no such teaching in the Holy Bible that says God saves people BEFORE they have faith.

God tells us repeatedly that we must FIRST come to Him in faith and THEN He rewards us.

You are too easy to show the truth to, but only humbleness and complete reliance on what God says will you come out of false beliefs.

I am quite firm in my faith, GT.

That I have faith in the Holy Trinity at all, is all God's doing.

 

[Nang]

There is no such teaching in the Holy Bible that says God saves people BEFORE they have faith.

God tells us repeatedly that we must FIRST come to Him in faith and THEN He rewards us.

Can you not see you are proclaiming a works/reward gospel message?

You are denying the great and historical Protestant doctrine of "Justification by Faith, alone."

 

[God's Truth]

By arguing in this way, you deny the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, that raises dead sinners to new spiritual life; changing and giving them new hearts; ears to hear, and new spiritual eyes to comprehend the Gospel message. I Corinthians 2:9-16

That scripture is about those who love God. You said no one loves God. God does not supernaturally make us to love Him.

Read I Corinthians 2:9-16 and comprehend that without first being resurrected to spiritual life, a sinner cannot believe the Gospel message. Regeneration precedes faith.

That is NOWHERE in the scriptures.

You first denied it when I said that is what Calvinists preach, and now you admit it.

And no one can hear the word while still dead in their sins.

The Gentiles were dead in their sins because they did not get circumcised and come into the covenant with God and sacrifice animals!

A sinner must first be changed and given ears to hear the Gospel preached, before they can comprehend and believe the Gospel message.

The Word of God says ANYONE and WHOEVER can believe and come to him to be saved.

There are no mystical powers inherent in the Gospel message, that zaps people to life. Neither does the word ever implant itself into a rock-hard, wicked heart.

YOU are the one who says God first regenerates people with His Holy Spirit.

God does NOT regenerate/save those who hate Him and do not believe and obey Him.

The heart must first be changed to receive the Word.

You must first search for God with all your heart! That means do what He says! I have scriptures for what I say.

The sinner must be gifted with new ears to hear, and their blindness must be reversed, so they can see (comprehend) the spiritual Truths of God. Regeneration is a resurrection; the old man is changed into a new creature, through the resurrection power of God . . in order that he might be justified by faith alone.

God gives understanding to those who OBEY Him.

Otherwise, you are claiming that sinners must figure out Truth and save themselves through their old, tainted (noetic) intellect and reasoning powers.

God says do NOT lean on your own understanding, but when you obey Him He will give you understanding.

Not so. Born again Christians are given new spiritual life and capacities, and as new creatures, they thereafter exhibit possessing "the mind of Christ." I Corinthians 2:16

Regeneration precedes faith and faith precedes obedience . . .

I prove everything I say with scripture, but will you believe the scriptures?

 

[God's Truth]

I am quite firm in my faith, GT.

That I have faith in the Holy Trinity at all, is all God's doing.

You believe things that go against God.

I can show you, easily.

 

[God's Truth]

I completely agree with your assessment of bearing false witness. This is rampant here at TOL, regardless of the topic.

It has made me think more carefully about what I say to another.

A violation of the 7th commandment is serious indeed.

Nang first said I was not speaking the truth about Calvinism, and now she agrees with what I said and confirms it.

You both need to be more careful.

Anyone for any reason and in any way goes against humans obeying God, whether for an excuse why you say they cannot, or otherwise, they are not on the side of truth and are teaching falseness.

 

[Eagles Wings]

You believe things that go against God.

I can show you, easily.

I've read many of your posts, GT, and regarding the order of salvation and continued sanctification in our Lord, I don't agree with your interpretation of Scripture.

I do like you though, and hope to remain on a friendly basis.

 

[Caino]

What scripture says that?

In addition to common sense Romans 10:9

 

[Eagles Wings]

Nang first said I was not speaking the truth about Calvinism, and now she agrees with what I said and confirms it.

You both need to be more careful.

Anyone for any reason and in any way goes against humans obeying God, whether for an excuse why you say they cannot, or otherwise, they are not on the side of truth and are teaching falseness.

Being careful is good. Avoiding falsehoods, also good.

 

[God's Truth]

I've read many of your posts, GT, and regarding the order of salvation and continued sanctification in our Lord, I don't agree with your interpretation of Scripture.

The scriptures have already been interpreted to English. I am not interpreting the scriptures, I am saying what they plainly say.

I just want to help others to get even closer to God.

I can prove easily that Jesus does not save us before we have faith.

I do like you though, and hope to remain on a friendly basis.

Thank you and I will always act as a friend to you.

 

[God's Truth]

Being careful is good. Avoiding falsehoods, also good.

Are you willing to look more carefully if you are?

 

[serpentdove]

I didn't know where else to put this, but in the time of Adam and Eve, when Eve was instructed to eat the Apple, did that mean the devil gave her the free will to do it? Or does it mean he was opening eves awareness to do things she wasn't instructed to do, like disobeying God (much like he did), and in a way exercising her free will?

He tempted her to sin (Jas 1:13). I suggest overcoming Satan's temptations to keep your will healthy (Eph 4:27). :straight:

See:

How can demonic strongholds be overcome? What is a demonic stronghold?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

In addition to common sense Romans 10:9

That verse is so good it has to be accompanied by Ash!

 

[God's Truth]

In addition to common sense Romans 10:9

Common sense says that if you say with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord", then you had better be obeying him.

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.