Forced Vaccination is Wrong

[fzappa13]

SPECIAL REQUEST

I need a replacement on this thread because I need to go take care of my 7 kids. I'd like a vaccine-choice champion, and I'm asking the readers to search their hearts and volunteer in my absence.

A thought ... born of experience ... when you oppose someone and then step out of the way, as often as not, they fall on their face. And then those that were allied against you turn on each other in your absence.

 

[journey]

SPECIAL REQUEST

I need a replacement on this thread because I need to go take care of my 7 kids. I'd like a vaccine-choice champion, and I'm asking the readers to search their hearts and volunteer in my absence.

I think that you're out of luck because most folks have more common sense.

 

[jgarden]

"Both Johnson and Beauregard alerted Davis that childhood diseases, especially measles, affected their troops in epidemic proportions. With soldiers in close confinement in camp, the malady spread from one contageous soldier to the next, and there seemed no way to check it ..... Nine of every ten persons without immunity who came in close contact with carriers caught the ailmemt. Those raised in rural areas, where few had exposure to it, suffered worse.

- General Lee's Army, page 69

Forced Vaccination is Wrong

Communicable diseases didn't stop at measles - others succumbed to typhoid and scurvey.

Disease was more feared and took a higher toll on human life than the battlefield.

The only way reason refusing to become vaccinated becomes viable is when everybody around you IS vaccinated.

 

[fzappa13]

I will keep it short and sweet. ANY child who is not vaccinated is a threat.

I DO sympathize with those children because it's not their fault.

Well, then the world has been populated by such threats for the vast majority of mankind's existence. You'll be glad to know that legislation is being proposed to provide folks such as yourself with the list of those that are not vaccinated and you and your friends can go hunt them down and deal with the threat. Happy hunting.

 

[Rusha]

Well, then the world has been populated by such threats for the vast majority of mankind's existence. You'll be glad to know that legislation is being proposed to provide folks such as yourself with the list of those that are not vaccinated and you and your friends can go hunt them down and deal with the threat. Happy hunting.

Well considering there are already regulations in place to keep the threat out of the public and private schools, that really won't be necessary. Thanks for your input.

 

[One Ugly Christian]

Can we all agree on that?

http://www.aapsonline.org/testimony/mandvac.htm

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc.
A Voice for Private Physicians Since 1943
Omnia pro aegroto

FACT SHEET ON MANDATORY VACCINES​

•AAPS does not oppose vaccines. AAPS has never taken an anti-vaccine position, although opponents have tried to paint that picture. AAPS has only attempted to halt government or school districts from blanket vaccine mandates that violate parental informed consent.

•42 states have mandatory vaccine policies, and many children are required 22 shots by first grade.

•According to government statistics, children under the age of 14 are three times more likely to suffer adverse effects -- including death -- following the hepatitis B vaccine than to catch the disease itself.

•The Centers for Disease Control admits that the reported number of adverse effects of vaccines is probably only 10% of actual adverse effects.

•The Physician's Desk Reference cites adverse reactions to the hepatitis B in less than 1 percent. However, if more than 70 million American children receive the vaccine, that means more than 700,000 children are likely to suffer adverse reactions.

•Children are a very low risk group for hepatitis B. Primary risk factors are dependent on lifestyle, i.e. multiple sex partners, drug abuse or an occupation with exposure to blood.

•Rampant conflicts of interest in the approval process has been the subject of several Congressional hearings, and a recent Congressional report concluded that the pharmaceutical industry has indeed exerted undue influence on mandatory vaccine legislation toward its own financial interests.

•The vaccine approval process has also been contaminated by flawed or incomplete clinical trials, and government officials have chosen to ignore negative results. For example, the CDC was forced to withdraw its recommendation of the rotavirus vaccine within one year of approval. Yet public documents obtained by AAPS show that the CDC was aware of alarmingly high intussuception rates months before the vaccine was approved and recommended.

•Mandatory vaccines violate the medical ethic of informed consent. A case could also be made that mandates for vaccines by school districts and legislatures is the de facto practice of medicine without a license.

•The CDC's own "Guide to Contraindications to Childhood Vaccination" warns that when assessing children's common symptoms, "if any one of them is a contraindication, DO NOT VACCINATE" [caps added]. And yet, under legislated mandates, the vaccines are still required.

Just saw this:
Mercury Toxicity: Has it caused one of the worst health crises in American history?

 

[One Ugly Christian]

Ok, but if a person fails to vaccinate their child, and that child catches a disease for which there is a vaccine and then spreads it to another person, the parent should be charged with assault and spend some time in jail. If that person dies, they should be charged with manslaughter. They should also be charged with child abuse.

Numerous studies have shown that vaccinated children become contagious and spread disease. So what, now should parents also be sued if they do vaccinate? Darned if you do and darned if you don't?

http://healthimpactnews.com/2012/vaccinated-population-contracting-and-spreading-disease-they-were-vaccinated-for/

http://www.naturalnews.com/048863_vaccine_propaganda_disease_outbreaks_vaccinated_children.html

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Well considering there are already regulations in place to keep the threat out of the public and private schools, that really won't be necessary. Thanks for your input.

Why not just have a vaccination school on one side of town and on the other a vaccine-optional school?

And while you are at it, I've been itching to know why/if you would support forcing the hep-B shot for school. Or Gardasil. Or tetanus.

Basically, why enforce shots for non-contagions that would require sexual activity or a rusty nail and can't spread to vulnerable children?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Just saw this:
Mercury Toxicity: Has it caused one of the worst health crises in American history?

Thimerosal

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.


Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930's. There is no convincing evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Why not just have a vaccination school on one side of town and on the other a vaccine-optional school?

Ah yes, the old separate but equal approach. Always so effective.

And while you are at it, I've been itching to know why/if you would support forcing the hep-B shot for school.

Hep-B shots are required for school here so they are done.

Or Gardasil.

Both girls have had it done. Neither is sexually active.. So one may wonder why vaccinate them if they are not active. Simple. I the future they will meet somebody they fall in love with who was sexually active an may be carrier. Could my daughters ask them about their history? Sure and they probably will. If their date has been sexually active will they automatically dump him? Probably not. That is the nature of affairs of the heart. So is providing them and their unborn children a degree of protection against the complications of HPV a good or a bad idea. It was a good idea for us.

Or tetanus.

Absolutely! With 5 year boosters. Because tetanus is everywhere, not just on rusty nails.

Basically, why enforce shots for non-contagions that would require sexual activity or a rusty nail and can't spread to vulnerable children?

Because you cannot predict when your child will become sexually active. You don't know it your child will become a victim of sexual assault. And tetanus is everywhere, like in the gravel of the playground your kid just skinned their knee on or the piece of playground equipment they just cut their finger on or in the neighbors backyard where your kid just got hit by a stick his friend threw at him.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Can we all agree on that?

http://www.aapsonline.org/testimony/mandvac.htm

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc.
A Voice for Private Physicians Since 1943
Omnia pro aegroto

FACT SHEET ON MANDATORY VACCINES​

•AAPS does not oppose vaccines. AAPS has never taken an anti-vaccine position, although opponents have tried to paint that picture. AAPS has only attempted to halt government or school districts from blanket vaccine mandates that violate parental informed consent.

•42 states have mandatory vaccine policies, and many children are required 22 shots by first grade.

•According to government statistics, children under the age of 14 are three times more likely to suffer adverse effects -- including death -- following the hepatitis B vaccine than to catch the disease itself.

•The Centers for Disease Control admits that the reported number of adverse effects of vaccines is probably only 10% of actual adverse effects.

•The Physician's Desk Reference cites adverse reactions to the hepatitis B in less than 1 percent. However, if more than 70 million American children receive the vaccine, that means more than 700,000 children are likely to suffer adverse reactions.

•Children are a very low risk group for hepatitis B. Primary risk factors are dependent on lifestyle, i.e. multiple sex partners, drug abuse or an occupation with exposure to blood.

•Rampant conflicts of interest in the approval process has been the subject of several Congressional hearings, and a recent Congressional report concluded that the pharmaceutical industry has indeed exerted undue influence on mandatory vaccine legislation toward its own financial interests.

•The vaccine approval process has also been contaminated by flawed or incomplete clinical trials, and government officials have chosen to ignore negative results. For example, the CDC was forced to withdraw its recommendation of the rotavirus vaccine within one year of approval. Yet public documents obtained by AAPS show that the CDC was aware of alarmingly high intussuception rates months before the vaccine was approved and recommended.

•Mandatory vaccines violate the medical ethic of informed consent. A case could also be made that mandates for vaccines by school districts and legislatures is the de facto practice of medicine without a license.

•The CDC's own "Guide to Contraindications to Childhood Vaccination" warns that when assessing children's common symptoms, "if any one of them is a contraindication, DO NOT VACCINATE" [caps added]. And yet, under legislated mandates, the vaccines are still required.

I was curious about some of these numbers so I did some digging. I was not able to verify most of the facts quoted in this "fact sheet".

Here is what the CDC says about the Hep-B Vaccine.

Here is what Hep-B can do to those who contract it.

Here are some facts about Hep-B from the World Health Organization.

In fact, the only people I can see claiming that, "children under the age of 14 are three times more likely to suffer adverse effects" are the AAPS. I was unable to find any supporting studies for their claims.

 

[CabinetMaker]

If the scientific consensus is that live attenuated viruses can mutate, shouldn't you be demanding that information from them?

Turns out that is a pretty big if. While my search was by no means exhaustive, I did find this. It is a study of three cases in the Philippines. It has references to many other papers. It does not conclude that vaccines readily mutate into virulent strains.

 

[Rusha]

Why not just have a vaccination school on one side of town and on the other a vaccine-optional school?

Because it makes so much sense to put that much time and effort into the whims of a few ...

And while you are at it, I've been itching to know why/if you would support forcing the hep-B shot for school. Or Gardasil. Or tetanus.

Yes ... and I see that Cabinetmaker already explained the whys of these vaccines.

Basically, why enforce shots for non-contagions that would require sexual activity or a rusty nail and can't spread to vulnerable children?

Because the Hep-B shot makes no assumption that the person someone marries won't pass on the disease to them.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Because it makes so much sense to put that much time and effort into the whims of a few ...

The moral dilemma of nearly 10% of parents is hardly "the whims of a few."

Also there are whole segments of the population that cannot get vaccinations like Orthodox Jews. You can't just raze an entire culture at YOUR whim, changing laws that were once reasonable and pretend nothing changed.

You want an-all vaccine school? Have one, without denying school to other taxpayers who have children who need to go to school.

Yes ... and I see that Cabinetmaker already explained the whys of these vaccines.

Where?

Because the Hep-B shot makes no assumption that the person someone marries won't pass on the disease to them.

You don't get to mandate that my children take shots to prepare them for sex with other children. And this did not take care of the tetanus question.

Nor did you say whether or not you want to make the yearly flu shots mandatory.

Or perhaps a typhoid vaccination every 6 months? (5,000 cases a year)

Used to be that schools were vaccine optional. Only now do they want to block concerned parents from having a say.

 

[Rusha]

You want an-all vaccine school? Have one, without denying school to other taxpayers who have children who need to go to school.

Where's the denial? The choice is follow the criteria or utilize another type of schooling.

Where?

You don't get to mandate that my children take shots to prepare them for sex with other children.

:chuckle: That you actually believe the HPV vaccine is about preparing them for sex with other children. It's about protection from a real threat that ANYONE can get, including the 25 year old virgin who weds the man of her dreams and actually believes she has nothing to fear.

However, in the case of the HPV vaccine, since the disease is not passed the same way as others diseases, I would not make it mandatory even though I believe rejection of the vaccine is both foolhardy and arrogant on the part of the parents. I mean cancer is no big deal, right?

And this did not take care of the tetanus question.

Tetanus infections can form from almost any type of skin injury, major or minor. Children have a habit of ending up with scrapes and punctures in every day play.

However, unlike these other diseases, tetanus is not contagious ... therefore, a parent's willingness to put their own child at risk will not affect OTHER children.

 

[fzappa13]

Thimerosal

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.


Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930's. There is no convincing evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.

Well then, pray tell, why don't you do us all a favor and start ingesting the stuff on a daily basis? You can start here ... http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_151174.html

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Where's the denial? The choice is follow the criteria or utilize another type of schooling.

What does "Where's the denial?" mean? I don't follow.

You don't get to suddenly make new laws to shut out the 10% who don't want each and every shot you wanna give. Orthodox Jews and the vaccine injured still have children with a right to the public education they pay for.

:chuckle: That you actually believe the HPV vaccine is about preparing them for sex with other children.

Unless you are protecting other schoolchildren you don't get to say anything about mine avoiding a sex-disease vaccine. Any more than the say you don't get over what birth control my child does/doesn't use - high school or elementary.

It's about protection from a real threat that ANYONE can get, including the 25 year old virgin who weds the man of her dreams and actually believes she has nothing to fear.

But you don't need to protect my virgins THAT WAY. That's not the part of school they require forced on them. They require enforced chastity during school hours. That's all the force required to handle school health and safety with STDs. And what they do after school isn't the school's problem.

... and FYI, I made the man of my dreams get TESTED and proved he was fit. Maybe if he'd been HPV positive and I was afraid I could have gotten the shot if I believed it was safe. (except it didn't exist back then.)

There are many ways to deal with it. Last of which is to have sex before finding out if a mate is healthy.

I'll let the reader research the safety of the HPV vaccine regarding fertility.

However, in the case of the HPV vaccine, since the disease is not passed the same way as others diseases, I would not make it mandatory even though I believe rejection of the vaccine is both foolhardy and arrogant on the part of the parents. I mean cancer is no big deal, right?

Then you are on my side of the fence. You wouldn't require personal protection like injected birth control for school so why force vaccines with no relation to normal school activities?

Welcome to the camp of the vaccine-optional people.

Tetanus infections can form from almost any type of skin injury, major or minor. Children have a habit of ending up with scrapes and punctures in every day play.

But the school won't fall ill from my kids' skinned knees. And you cannot confer immunity to tetanus with a shot. You can even get a natural tetanus infection and you can still get it again in the future. So you can't force that one, either.

However, unlike these other diseases, tetanus is not contagious ... therefore, a parent's willingness to put their own child at risk will not affect OTHER children.

And again, welcome. The Orthodox Jews and the other part of the 10% thank you for recognizing why control freaks can't just set a vaccine schedule and demand arbitrary compliance or no public school.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Ah yes, the old separate but equal approach. Always so effective.

Your solution would be equivalent to forcibly bleaching my skin so I could look as white as my classmates. That's not the right kind of "togetherness." lain:

If their date has been sexually active will they automatically dump him? Probably not. That is the nature of affairs of the heart.

They can still marry and date, but they can't get a sexually active boy tested before having sex with them?

So is providing them and their unborn children a degree of protection

What degree? How big is the degree? Bigger than the risk of vaccine damage? Don't count all cervical cancers because only a small fraction have vaccine counterpart infections.

Plus, how do you know the live HPV won't de-attenuate and still sicken the girls in the long term? No long term studies or autopsy samples have been done that I know of to determine if the virus will be found in human cervical cancers yet.

With 5 year boosters. Because tetanus is everywhere, not just on rusty nails.

You won't prevent tetanus with a tetanus shot. You can still get the infection again, even after a wild-type infection.

What about getting Typhoid every 6 months? Why not, eh? 5,000 cases a year in the USA alone!

Because you cannot predict when your child will become sexually active. You don't know it your child will become a victim of sexual assault. And tetanus is everywhere, like in the gravel of the playground your kid just skinned their knee on or the piece of playground equipment they just cut their finger on or in the neighbors backyard where your kid just got hit by a stick his friend threw at him.

Are you arguing that to avoid a disease caused by the complications of forced penetration, you support the forced penetration of my kids' shoulders with needles if they get access to public services they pay for like public school?

 

[Rusha]

What does "Where's the denial?" mean? I don't follow.

Simple. Go back and read the section of your post that this is a response to.

You don't get to suddenly make new laws to shut out the 10% who don't want each and every shot you wanna give. Orthodox Jews and the vaccine injured still have children with a right to the public education they pay for.

No new laws ... though apparently you don't have a problem with putting those 90% children at risk. I DO. Using the "I pay taxes" excuse is no excuse for putting other people's children at risk.

Unless you are protecting other schoolchildren you don't get to say anything about mine avoiding a sex-disease vaccine. Any more than the say you don't get over what birth control my child does/doesn't use - high school or elementary.

:chuckle: Too funny. As I stated before, I couldn't care less whether or not your child gets THAT vaccine. Even though using the type of *reason* you have given shows ignorance about WHY the vaccine is essential, that vaccine is an exception. Because at the end of the day, it is your OWN child whose health and life is at risk. While I may not agree, they are your responsibility.

But you don't need to protect my virgins THAT WAY.

:rotfl: Whether they are or aren't is not my concern. EVERY parent thinks that. What's amazing is that you believe *your virgin* is protected from the person she/he marries.

That's not the part of school they require forced on them. They require enforced chastity during school hours. That's all the force required to handle school health and safety with STDs. And what they do after school isn't the school's problem.

Read again. Your mind is on the delusion of chastity. Mine is on the real world and what happens AFTER school. Though I will say it again. I DO NOT CARE IF SCHOOLS DO NOT ADMINISTER THAT PARTICULAR VIRUS.

... and FYI, I made the man of my dreams get TESTED and proved he was fit. Maybe if he'd been HPV positive and I was afraid I could have gotten the shot if I believed it was safe. (except it didn't exist back then.)

There is no test to find out a person’s “HPV status.”

http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm

Most people with HPV do not know they are infected and never develop symptoms or health problems from it. Some people find out they have HPV when they get genital warts. Women may find out they have HPV when they get an abnormal Pap test result (during cervical cancer screening). Others may only find out once they’ve developed more serious problems from HPV, such as cancers.

There are many ways to deal with it. Last of which is to have sex before finding out if a mate is healthy.

I'll let the reader research the safety of the HPV vaccine regarding fertility.

Once again, it comes down to you believing the vaccine is only for those who are sexually active. lain:

Then you are on my side of the fence. You wouldn't require personal protection like injected birth control for school so why force vaccines with no relation to normal school activities?

Welcome to the camp of the vaccine-optional people.

I am NEVER on your side of the fence. I have explained the difference with that particular vaccine, and as usual, your tunnel vision prevents you of accepting anything other than your own narrow understanding of it.

But the school won't fall ill from my kids' skinned knees. And you cannot confer immunity to tetanus with a shot. You can even get a natural tetanus infection and you can still get it again in the future. So you can't force that one, either.

Cool. Don't get it. Kids never get scrapes, punctures or cuts and Tetanus is a wonderful disease to develop.

And again, welcome.

Don't thank me. I will never support your personal view that intentionally allows other people's children to be at risks of contracting diseases they don't need to contract.

The only thing I will give you is that as long as you don't insist on utilizing public schools, it should be your choice to allow your children to go without protection.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Simple. Go back and read the section of your post that this is a response to.

OK, I reread it and I think I gather you actually mean that you don't think I'd be denied a public service I pay for if I have to homeschool because of refusing non-contagious diseases.

But your kingdom is not the real USA. If you enforce vaccines for PS then you are mandating non-contagious vaccines, too. They didn't put anything on the new proposed legislation to soften that.

But thankfully these new bad laws are starting to wilt before they get a vote! Here's one for example. Note the reasons the bill is dying.

Same as my reasons concerning my right to public services I pay for.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2015/03/bill-to-restrict-vaccine-exemptions-losing-support-in-oregon.html

No new laws ... though apparently you don't have a problem with putting those 90% children at risk. I DO. Using the "I pay taxes" excuse is no excuse for putting other people's children at risk.

You must be ignorant of the new pushes for new laws excluding choice from parents for any kind of vaccine exemptions except special medical exemptions of a particular pre-approved nature. (not all medical reasons will be respected in some proposed laws)

:chuckle: Too funny. As I stated before, I couldn't care less whether or not your child gets THAT vaccine. Even though using the type of *reason* you have given shows ignorance about WHY the vaccine is essential, that vaccine is an exception. Because at the end of the day, it is your OWN child whose health and life is at risk. While I may not agree, they are your responsibility.

Then you will vote NO to the new laws?

:rotfl: Whether they are or aren't is not my concern. EVERY parent thinks that. What's amazing is that you believe *your virgin* is protected from the person she/he marries.

I said mine can do the tests before sex if they are smart. If they are so eager to have sex the minute my back is turned, being vaccinated for a few diseases out of the many will be the least of my concerns. Kids like that will make a mess of their lives (and others) regardless.

I DO NOT CARE IF SCHOOLS DO NOT ADMINISTER THAT PARTICULAR VIRUS.

So vote no on mandatory vaccinations without exceptions at public schools.

There is no test to find out a person’s “HPV status.”

TOTAL bull. You can even get the "free" screening your taxes pay for.

http://www.cdc.gov/hpv/screening.html

Once again, it comes down to you believing the vaccine is only for those who are sexually active. lain:

I think a lot of things about that vaccine. It's none of your concern.

I am NEVER on your side of the fence.

So you'll vote "yes" to forcing all arbitrary vaccines?

Tetanus is a wonderful disease to develop.

You don't understand tetanus. Bet you thought it was a virus. Bet you think you can be immune.

Don't thank me. I will never support your personal view that intentionally allows other people's children to be at risks of contracting diseases they don't need to contract.

So you'll be forcing vaccinations? Make up your minds.

You don't have to do what I do with my kids. Your mother doesn't have a systemic autoimmune disease and your husband isn't vaccine damaged. And if I'm wrong on both counts, then my, I really don't understand you. I can't imagine why you would want to deny my family the right to choose or steal our tax money.

The only thing I will give you is that as long as you don't insist on utilizing public schools, it should be your choice to allow your children to go without protection.

But you shouldn't get my kid's school money, then.