Forced Vaccination is Wrong

[CabinetMaker]

Not if the guy is chaste.



Unreasonable?

As long as they are both convinced vaccinations are safe and prudent they could do something like that. What would stop them? It's a free world.

The last thing I want in considering vaccination is to stop people from choosing. I just don't want them tampering with school policy to shut out members of the public they are biased against.

If a bride feels her mate is unreasonable with those requirements it sounds like they should talk things over or maybe they are a bad match.

For the sake of discussion, let us assume that there is a man who is chaste, established and interested in your daughter. What if he wants to marry your 15 year old, properly trained daughter, and he insists on her being vaccinated before marriage. She is a minor. Do you consent in that case?

 

[CabinetMaker]

No, it's not that simple. You are not describing a private school setting. You are talking about kids who's parents may not be able to homeschool who's children have a right to a public school education.

You can't say they forfeit their right to avoid an invasive procedure and a personal health risk in order to access their right to education they pay for.

Given that private schools are in a far better position to actually refuse unvaccinated students, I would say your argument is a non-starter. In other words, if public schools won't accept unvaccinated kids, most private schools wont either.

 

[Rusha]

You can't say they forfeit their right to avoid an invasive procedure and a personal health risk in order to access their right to education they pay for.

Sure I can ... and as long as the school agrees with *me*, it's your burden to convince them otherwise.

Thus far, your *reasons* are not reasonable for the very fact that they dismiss the health and welfare of all the other students.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

For the sake of discussion, let us assume that there is a man who is chaste, established and interested in your daughter. ....She is a minor. Do you consent in that case?

Then he's an idiot and not worthy of my daughter's attention. And my daughter would be pretty immature if she couldn't see that coming. Chances are pretty slim I'd consider any minor of mine mature enough, anyway.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Given that private schools are in a far better position to actually refuse unvaccinated students, I would say your argument is a non-starter. In other words, if public schools won't accept unvaccinated kids, most private schools wont either.

Did you not understand my post?

I'm saying you can't deny public education.

Of course private schools can reject non-vaccinators.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Sure I can ... and as long as the school agrees with *me*, it's your burden to convince them otherwise.

Thus far, your *reasons* are not reasonable for the very fact that they dismiss the health and welfare of all the other students.

Your reasons are not reasonable.

You are the one putting kids at personal risk when you change the rules of admittance to PUBLIC school to exclude non-vaccinators.

You can't cherry pick which risks to expose children to when that's between them, their parents, and the doctors who consult them.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Then he's an idiot and not worthy of my daughter's attention. And my daughter would be pretty immature if she couldn't see that coming. Chances are pretty slim I'd consider any minor of mine mature enough, anyway.

Why is he an idiot for wanting a healthy wife who will not be troubled by childhood illnesses? Maybe he grew up and lost a brother to measles so vaccinations are as important to his family as not vaccinating is to yours. Maybe he is a nurse and has studied vaccinations and does not share your convictions regarding them?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Did you not understand my post?

I'm saying you can't deny public education.

Of course private schools can reject non-vaccinators.

I can deny you access to public education if you have not met the requirements to attend public school. Remember, with rights there come certain obligations.

 

[Rusha]

Your reasons are not reasonable.

:chuckle: Of course ... disagreeing with you is always unreasonable.

You are the one putting kids at personal risk when you change the rules of admittance to PUBLIC school to exclude non-vaccinators.

Uh huh. Keeping children who are a risk away from those who are not is actually putting children at risk. :freak:

You can't cherry pick which risks to expose children to when that's between them, their parents, and the doctors who consult them.

Of course I can ... when they insist on risking the health of others.

 

[Rusha]

For the sake of discussion, let us assume that there is a man who is chaste, established and interested in your daughter. What if he wants to marry your 15 year old, properly trained daughter, and he insists on her being vaccinated before marriage. She is a minor. Do you consent in that case?

Then he's an idiot and not worthy of my daughter's attention. And my daughter would be pretty immature if she couldn't see that coming. Chances are pretty slim I'd consider any minor of mine mature enough, anyway.

Why is he an idiot for wanting a healthy wife who will not be troubled by childhood illnesses? Maybe he grew up and lost a brother to measles so vaccinations are as important to his family as not vaccinating is to yours. Maybe he is a nurse and has studied vaccinations and does not share your convictions regarding them?

Good question.

 

[fzappa13]

I'm left to wonder about a mind that would embrace the idea that damage by vaccine is acceptable while damage by disease is not. Absolutely bizarre.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I'm left to wonder about a mind that would embrace the idea that damage by vaccine is acceptable while damage by disease is not. Absolutely bizarre.

The odds of being damaged by a disease are greater than the odds of being damaged by a vaccine. Both are possible. Both can be severe. Its a risk assessment. An unvaccinated child is a greater risk of catching a disease with potentially life alter side effects than a vaccinated child.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Why is he an idiot for wanting a healthy wife who will not be troubled by childhood illnesses? Maybe he grew up and lost a brother to measles so vaccinations are as important to his family as not vaccinating is to yours. Maybe he is a nurse and has studied vaccinations and does not share your convictions regarding them?

The thread is about forced vaccinations.

Any man trying to win my daughters would be smart enough not to try to force a vaccine on them when it's medically contraindicated.

My daughters wouldn't take an interest in such a small minded person who would try.

And, no, we wouldn't want a man in the family who would put the grandkids at risk.

 

[CabinetMaker]

The thread is about forced vaccinations.

Any man trying to win my daughters would be smart enough not to try to force a vaccine on them when it's medically contraindicated.

My daughters wouldn't take an interest in such a small minded person who would try.

And, no, we wouldn't want a man in the family who would put the grandkids at risk.

I see. Nobodies experiences and feelings but yours matter.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Both are equally biased. Of the two, the businessman is likely to be more honest as he must answer to the DEA. The parent is free to way whatever they want, true or not. The least biased source are the medical journals where doctors publish their research.

What??? :noway:

A father who gave his son vaccines until he finally couldn't anymore because the damage to his son was too great, forcing him to wake up is more reliable than men who answer to the DEA!!!

Haha

In the 1980’s, Bayer Corporation produced a medicine that was supposed to improve the lives of hemophiliacs. Bayer didn’t tell those hemophiliacs that their product was infected with HIV. Entire families of hemophiliacs died with AIDS as the virus spread within households. When Bayer was ordered to stop selling their drug in America, they dumped their AIDS laden product in Asia and killed Asian families. No one with Bayer management was arrested. No one who made those psychopathic quality decisions went to prison

http://www.ringoffireradio.com/2015/02/papantonio-bayerstill-a-sociopath-drug-company/

 

[1PeaceMaker]

But "certain vaccinations" is too vague. Which strains of which virus can't you live without?

Also, you don't have the right to medicate the public for your health. Public school is just as public as public libraries or courthouses.

If you want to live in a contagion free world, start a vaccination-only community where everybody either gets all the vaccines on offer - or just the ones that King CM determines.

Only in so far as it is actually forced. I do believe in required vaccinations.

Required for what essential government services they and their families paid for? Only school? Why profile and treat children like this while not "requiring" adults to do the same?

The harm caused by a poor injection is not limited to vaccinations. Anytime one gets an intramuscular shot there exists the risk of the needle going someplace it should not and causing an injury. When I vaccinate my horses I have to be very careful not to insert the needle into a vain. If the vaccine enters the vain it could kill my horse. When people are giving shots they need to be properly trained and take their job seriously to prevent injuries.

Thanks for making my point. One public health threat is the risk posed by all the mistakes being made by shot-givers.

I differ to the doctors that deal with public health issues.

How can you when you've already admitted they've gone too far? They make kids get shots they can't claim help herd immunity like hep B.

I see no reason that anybody should have to suffer through a disease for which there is a vaccination.

Here's a reason, their autonomy and right to be free from medical tyranny!

And another.... vaccines fail!!! :bang: Some fail a LOT.

Especially for something like chicken pox. Its bad as a kid but if you get it as a kid, it can be much worse as Shingles when they are an older adult.

I've heard adults complain that they got shingles from the chicken pox shot. So there's that.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

I see. Nobodies experiences and feelings but yours matter.

Is that what "medically contraindicated" means to you?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Is that what "medically contraindicated" means to you?

That term doesn't matter one bit to you. I stated the man in question lost a sibling to a childhood disease and you called him small minded and beneath your families standards.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

:chuckle: Of course ... disagreeing with you is always unreasonable.

Disagreeing with yourself is what I'd be worried about...

Interesting link that KMO provided on the Gardasil thread. If accurate, I would be concerned about the safety of the vaccine.

Uh huh. Keeping children who are a risk away from those who are not is actually putting children at risk. :freak:

You can do that by sending them to a vaccine only private school. You don't have the right to deny them an education.

You can't pretend that homeschooling is so impossible for many and so inferior if you won't let a child have access to public school - a school that their money paid for.

Of course I can ... when they insist on risking the health of others.

The person insisting on risks are the ones who send their kids to school at all. That's where we lose a large fraction of our children every year.

And you risk the health of others when you insist they get many jabs against their better judgment. Where would it end?

Children who don't have the ability to access public education are at risk unless their parents can overcome the prejudice and school them at home.

Lumping all vaccinations together and not supporting the right of a healthy person to refuse medical treatment with vaccines if they go to public school is extremist.

AND WHY would you have the right to change laws all of a sudden to force children who have been attending out?

If you don't like a free America, go to Germany, China or something like that.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

That term doesn't matter one bit to you. I stated the man in question lost a sibling to a childhood disease and you called him small minded and beneath your families standards.

My family has been damaged by vaccines and lost loved ones to medical incompetence. It would take a small minded man to disregard that and pressure vaccinations. I'm sure it would infuriate my daughters.

And concern them about the safety of their future children. So I doubt it would even get to that point.