1Way1Truth1Life
New member
This is only one place where faith is defined in the bible and expanded upon. What about the entire bible as getting the entire picture is key?
Faith, Not Works, Justifies the Ungodly, Romans 4:5.
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
This is only one place where faith is defined in the bible and expanded upon. What about the entire bible as getting the entire picture is key?
beloved57
Well-known member
Plenty of folk here don't believe the Gospel, so you are in good company!
i believe in Jesus Christ ism
Ben Masada
New member
Faith, not works, justifies the ungodly. Rom. 4:5.
Faith, not works, justifies the ungodly. Rom. 4:5.
That's a statement completely devoid of common sense. Justification as a result of obedience to God's Law or obedience to God's Law as a result of Faith is one and the very same thing. There is absolutely no difference between obedience for the sake of the Law and obedience as a result of faith. Either way the Law is obeyed and that's all that counts. Hence, Abraham was justified for carrying out his faith through the works of the Law. (James 2:17-26)
Faith, not works, justifies the ungodly. Rom. 4:5.
That's a statement completely devoid of common sense. Justification as a result of obedience to God's Law or obedience to God's Law as a result of Faith is one and the very same thing. There is absolutely no difference between obedience for the sake of the Law and obedience as a result of faith. Either way the Law is obeyed and that's all that counts. Hence, Abraham was justified for carrying out his faith through the works of the Law. (James 2:17-26)
iamaberean
New member
Faith, Not Works, Justifies the Ungodly, Romans 4:5
Faith, Not Works, Justifies the Ungodly, Romans 4:5
Is there a conflict in scriptures here? Are you wrong, or the bible?
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Faith, Not Works, Justifies the Ungodly, Romans 4:5
Is there a conflict in scriptures here? Are you wrong, or the bible?
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
csuguy
Well-known member
Contrary to popular belief, even Paul maintains that one's deeds are what we are judged by:
Combine this with James 2, which makes it clear that faith without works cannot save you, and Matthew 7 where Jesus says that only those who do the will of the Father will be saved, and the parable of the sheep and goats, etc. It is clear that your deeds play an important role in your salvation.
Two clear requirements of salvation are found when we look at forgiveness, for instance. We all know that forgiveness is necessary for salvation - for without forgiveness one is left to pay the consequences, which means death. But one is not automatically forgiven when they sin. Rather, forgiveness is only given after one repents. So, one requirement of us is that we repent. Secondly, Jesus teaches that one must forgive to be forgiven. If you refuse to show mercy and forgiveness with others - then neither will you receive mercy or forgiveness (Matthew 18:21-35). So here is a second requirement of salvation: you must forgive those who repent.
To be clear, these requirements do not earn us forgiveness and mercy - these are gifts to be sure, without which we would be damned. But, as we see above, these gifts are conditional. Forgiving others does not earn us forgiveness from one we have wronged - but to deny forgiveness to others will lead to a lack of mercy and forgiveness when we are in turn judged. To bless others with a portion of the eternal blessings that we receive as a gift does not in turn earn us those blessings.
[God] will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress [e]for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:6-11
Combine this with James 2, which makes it clear that faith without works cannot save you, and Matthew 7 where Jesus says that only those who do the will of the Father will be saved, and the parable of the sheep and goats, etc. It is clear that your deeds play an important role in your salvation.
Two clear requirements of salvation are found when we look at forgiveness, for instance. We all know that forgiveness is necessary for salvation - for without forgiveness one is left to pay the consequences, which means death. But one is not automatically forgiven when they sin. Rather, forgiveness is only given after one repents. So, one requirement of us is that we repent. Secondly, Jesus teaches that one must forgive to be forgiven. If you refuse to show mercy and forgiveness with others - then neither will you receive mercy or forgiveness (Matthew 18:21-35). So here is a second requirement of salvation: you must forgive those who repent.
To be clear, these requirements do not earn us forgiveness and mercy - these are gifts to be sure, without which we would be damned. But, as we see above, these gifts are conditional. Forgiving others does not earn us forgiveness from one we have wronged - but to deny forgiveness to others will lead to a lack of mercy and forgiveness when we are in turn judged. To bless others with a portion of the eternal blessings that we receive as a gift does not in turn earn us those blessings.
Cross Reference
New member
Are they now?? What happened to you? Why not take those empty words of yours and fill them with meaning?
I have news for you, friend. You don't read like a Christian. Christians don't carry about with them, heavy hammers of judgementalism for other Christians who are seeking God to Him nor do they ignore sound doctrine from the written word when presented them to consider. Not doing so discredits you and anyone like you as being a "my way or the its the highway" brass cymbal when in fact you are the sound of a "one note samba" attempting to lecture on Jesus Christ but as one who does not know Him.
Question: Do you love the Lord? Do you even know Him as Lord?
Cross Reference
New member
beloved57
Well-known member
Those Christ Lived and died for, His Deeds that He did while on earth in their behalf, those are the deeds they will be Judged by, He has kept the Law of God perfectly for them ! Their good deeds are within the Righteousness of Christ
Rev 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, bright and pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.ASV
She has been permitted to dress in fine (radiant) linen, dazzling and white—for the fine linen is (signifies, represents) the righteousness (the upright, just, and godly living, deeds, and conduct, and right standing with God) of the saints (God’s holy people).AMP
The Fine Linen is Christ's Righteousness Imputed, and it stands in their place as for godly and upright Living, good deeds and conduct, and right standing with God !
Cross Reference
New member
csuguy
Well-known member
For the (true) Christian, I wouldn't say that there is any action not regulated by the heart. Though this does not mean that the action is therefore involuntary, only that one may properly evaluate the moral value of their actions based upon God's Law.
If someone does not repent then you are not required to forgive them. Scripture only speaks of forgiveness within the context of repentance.
How do you mean? That doesn't sound particularly relevant to salvation/forgiveness.
For the Christian there is a relationship. For the non-believer, that is why God commands we Christians to go and share the Good News and make diciples - teaching them God's Commands. For those that are not reached by this, then there is always the individual's conscience.
Romans 2:14-16 For when Gentiles who do not have [m]the Law do [n]instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having [o]the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
Even if one knows nothing of God, they still have a conscience to guide them. When they act contrary to their conscience, they sin. Of course this isn't as good as knowing God's Law and Will, but it is an adaptable approach which factors into account an individual's knowledge/understanding/etc.
Unfortunately, James had not yet come into a full understanding of the Gospel and justification by faith when he wrote the book of James. Nor did Peter.
There was a problem. James had sent men to see if Peter was eating with Gentiles, See Galatians 2:11, 12, 13, 14.
Paul had to straighten them out.
Someone has to straighten out you heretics.
Cross Reference
New member
You are not equipped to do that, nor is it your prerogative to do so. Every attempt you have made with me and every reply in return by me, has by you, been obfuscated into oblivion.
Something is wrong with that scene that smells.
Yes, I am equipped to straighten you out. Problem is that you don't want to hear the truth of the Gospel and justification by faith. You want to hear something about you and your religion.
Cross Reference
New member
You need to get a life, son. You don't read to listen very well and not at all to what I written to you.
I am saved and have been born again. Now where do want to go with my confession of Faith that you liable me as a heretic? Got something additional I need to know to validate my confession of Jesus Christ, reveal what you worship?
1Way1Truth1Life
New member
So, its all about you.
You have been born again.
You have made a confession of faith.
And now because YOU have done those things, YOU think that YOU are saved.
The Bible is a truthful book. It does not hide the sins or the mistakes of God's people.
Interplanner
Well-known member
I can see where it clarifies things to show some corrections of leaders so that future generations of the church can be completely sure about what they are being asked to teach. It helps, rather than hurts, to have Peter a bit off track or James a bit off and then corrected.
I don't think James is at fault in the letter (he is just showing that a body has to be active to be alive). But he is named in Gal 2.