Faith, Not Works, Justifies the Ungodly, Romans 4:5.

[beloved57]

It is our faith and because of our faith that God justifies, Romans 5:1.

Not because you think that you have been predestinated.

Faith is a work, and it does not Justify anyone, no scripture says that faith justifes a person ! God Justifies because of Christ's work, His Blood and Righteousness ! It is God that Justifies,and Christ that died !

And Rom 5:1 says nothing about being Justified by our Faith ! You must cant read !

 

[Cross Reference]

Nope, The Holy Spirit will conform you to the image of Christ. But that does not save or justify you.

Where doe it say the Holy Spirit would do anything except convict, [at this point I can't understand why given your reasoning] and take the things of Christ and reveal them to those of us who know to seek God for His purpose for our salvation?

Question for you, in your great understanding of what constitutes being a Christian: what would be the necessity of any of that according to your cultic understanding? What kind of a 'Christianity' do you follow?

 

[Cross Reference]

Romans 3

10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.”

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith of Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Your understanding of Rom 3:10 can't be found in the scriptures.

 

[Cross Reference]

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:10.

Yes! What are those "ordained works"?

Just as the law was the Jews keeper and his guide, the Holy Spirit is now the Christians keeper and his guide.

And?? Does that mean I can live anyway I want and the Holy Spirit ignores it; it will have no bearing on my relationship with Christ??

 

[Robert Pate]

Where doe it say the Holy Spirit would do anything except convict, [at this point I can't understand why given your reasoning] and take the things of Christ and reveal them to those of us who know to seek God for His purpose for our salvation?

Question for you, in your great understanding of what constitutes being a Christian: what would be the necessity of any of that according to your cultic understanding? What kind of a 'Christianity' do you follow?

One that lives by faith in Christ and his Gospel.

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes! What are those "ordained works"?



And?? Does that mean I can live anyway I want and the Holy Spirit ignores it; it will have no bearing on my relationship with Christ??

Here are some of the works of the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16, 17. John 15:26. John 16:13, 14, 15.

 

[Cruciform]

The biblical teaching on justification and salvation is outlined here and here.

 

[Ktoyou]

This is probably one of the most important scriptures in the Bible.

"But to him that does NO WORKS but believes on him that justifies THE UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

Scriptures like this are the key to understanding the Gospel. God justifies the ungodly not based upon what we do, our works, but based upon the works of Christ. Jesus in our name and on our behalf, fulfills all of the righteous demands of God's Holy Law and in doing so justifies the ungodly.

"To declare, I say, at this time HIS righteousness: that he might be just and the justifier of him that believes in Jesus" Romans 3:26.

Faith not works counts for Righteousness. Paul wrote, "For if Abraham were justified by works, he would have something to glory about: but not before God" Romans 4:2.

The reason that justification is by faith and not by works is because all of the work of salvation has ALREADY been done by Jesus Christ.

Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the whole world unto God, "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their sins unto them" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

All good to here. I hope you come around and join in more. You have many right ideas, then you drop in the 'religion' issue and lose some credibility.

I have less problem with that and more with your not interacting.

 

[beloved57]

One that lives by faith in Christ and his Gospel.

You have rejected Christ and the Gospel of His Grace, Truths of Tulip!

You teach that millions upon millions for whom Christ lived and died and rose shall yet wind up lost in hell for their sins in unbelief! That's making Him a failure!

 

[Cross Reference]

Here are some of the works of the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16, 17. John 15:26. John 16:13, 14, 15.

They are all of the works of the Holy Spirit that reveal Him to be the Tutor in the Christians life purposed to turn the children of God into sons of God by teaching and testing for the day when he is adopted back into the family of God as a full fledged son and sent into the world. It is the same way Jesus performed His early life before being sent into the world. His coming out day to enter the world is found in Luke 4:1-14.

Thank you.

 

[Cross Reference]

One that lives by faith in Christ and his Gospel.

Well then, stop living by your faith in His faith and live by His Life that you be found living by His FAITH..

However, if you are a cessationist, you will never understand that to be what God has purposed for His children.

 

[Robert Pate]

Well then, stop living by your faith in His faith and live by His Life that you be found living by His FAITH..

However, if you are a cessationist, you will never understand that to be what God has purposed for His children.

Paul said..."The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17.

Not by signs, visions, miracles or religion. To live by faith is to live by the Gospel.

 

[1Way1Truth1Life]

An important question to be understood and fully answered is what is faith? How does God define it fully all through the entire bible?

 

[Cross Reference]

Paul said...

"The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17.

Paul said he lived by the faith of the son of God. Should we not construe Rom 1:17 to say that is the faith he is referring to?? Why should you have even have a problem with that if you say you are a Christian?????

Not by signs, visions, miracles or religion. To live by faith is to live by the Gospel.

Sorry, I don't worship the gospel. I worship the God of the gospels.

There are no signs, visions, miracles or religion in the faith OF the Son of God by which we are to live by. Only Himself in union with the Father are we directed, by the gospels, to do.

Again what is your problem with how Paul lived that we should not also live as he lived Christ? How can you even argue with that??

 

[Robert Pate]

An important question to be understood and fully answered is what is faith? How does God define it fully all through the entire bible?

Faith always has an object.

In the Christian religion it is always belief and trust in the work and person of Jesus Christ.

Faith is the only human attribute that God honors, Hebrews 11:1-40.

 

[Robert Pate]

Paul said...

Paul said he lived by the faith of the son of God. Should we not construe Rom 1:17 to say that is the faith he is referring to?? Why should you have even have a problem with that if you say you are a Christian?????



Sorry, I don't worship the gospel. I worship the God of the gospels.

There are no signs, visions, miracles or religion in the faith OF the Son of God by which we are to live by. Only Himself in union with the Father are we directed, by the gospels, to do.

Again what is your problem with how Paul lived that we should not also live as he lived Christ? How can you even argue with that??

The Gospel of Jesus Christ cannot be separated from who he is. To believe the Gospel is to believe in Jesus.

Just as Paul lived by faith in Christ, we should also live by faith in Christ and his Gospel.

To not believe the Gospel is to not live by faith in Christ.

 

[beloved57]

The Gospel of Jesus Christ cannot be separated from who he is. To believe the Gospel is to believe in Jesus.

Just as Paul lived by faith in Christ, we should also live by faith in Christ and his Gospel.

To not believe the Gospel is to not live by faith in Christ.

You reject the Gospel of Christ, you even teach that people He Lived and died for and rose for, wind up lost in hell any way ! What kinf of Gospel is that ?

 

[patrick jane]

Faith always has an object.

In the Christian religion it is always belief and trust in the work and person of Jesus Christ.

Faith is the only human attribute that God honors, Hebrews 11:1-40.

good post Robert , Hebrews 11

Hebrews 11:5 KJV - Hebrews 11:6 KJV - Hebrews 11:13 KJV -


Hebrews 11:24-25 - Hebrews 11:39-40 KJV -

 

[Cross Reference]

The Gospel of Jesus Christ cannot be separated from who he is. To believe the Gospel is to believe in Jesus.

Just as Paul lived by faith in Christ, we should also live by faith in Christ and his Gospel.

Read Gal 2:20 in the KJV

To not believe the Gospel is to not live by faith in Christ.

How old are you that you should argue so immaturely? Your knowledge is no knowledge __ not even of the gospel.
Try this while you are at it because you need help in big way:


Interest or identification?



"I have been crucified with Christ". Gal. 2:20.

"The imperative need spiritually is to sign the death-warrant of the disposition of sin, to turn all emotional impressions and intellectual beliefs into a moral verdict against the disposition of sin, viz., my claim to my right to myself. Paul says—“I have been crucified with Christ”; he does not say, ‘I have determined to imitate Jesus Christ,’ or, ‘I will endeavour to follow Him,’ but, ‘I have been identified with Him in His death.’ When I come to such a moral decision and act upon it, then all that Christ wrought for me on the Cross is wrought in me. The free committal of myself to God gives the Holy Spirit the chance to impart to me the holiness of Jesus Christ.
“… nevertheless I live …” The individuality remains, but the mainspring, the ruling disposition, is radically altered. The same human body remains, but the old satanic right to myself is destroyed.
“And the life which I now live in the flesh …,” not the life which I long to live and pray to live, but the life I now live in my mortal flesh, the life which men can see, “I live by the faith of the Son of God.” This faith is not Paul’s faith in Jesus Christ, but the faith that the Son of God has imparted to him—“the faith of the Son of God.” It is no longer faith in faith, but faith which has overleapt all conscious bounds, the identical faith of the Son of God."


Chambers, O. (1986). My utmost for his highest: Selections for the year. Grand Rapids, MI: Oswald Chambers Publications; Marshall Pickering.

Don't bother replying. I won't be here if you don't want to agree with that understanding of intimacy from Chambers.

 

[PureX]

I'm sorry Robert Pate, but separating faith from works is just plain stupid. Faith IS a work or it's just sophistry. Faith is the work of trusting in God's being and promise by the way we live our lives. And in fact those promises manifest in our lives, or they don't, by the way we live them.

To claim to have faith in God, and then to live as if we have no faith in God, simply makes our claim of faith an empty boast. So that when you pick and choose Bible quotes to try and separate faith from behavior, to venerate faith and invalidate or excuse behavior, you are being dishonest about both.