Rosenritter
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Genesis 1:1
Genesis 1:2
Genesis 1:3
...etc
Please explain how any passages you list supposedly prove your philosophy that Jesus was mistaken and that God will give immortality to the wicked.
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Genesis 1:1
Genesis 1:2
Genesis 1:3
...etc
Please explain how any passages you list supposedly prove your philosophy that Jesus was mistaken and that God will give immortality to the wicked.
Rosenritter
New member
GM, you can slow down and think this over for a bit. You've said that you don't claim to be an ivory tower intellectual type and this isn't a speed contest, so I won't hold it against you if you take a moment to make sure you have your ducks in a row before responding. I'd prefer it, actually.
While John was on the Island of Patmos he was allowed to see the judgment taking place. He wrote down what he witnessed. I believe he was allowed to see it in "Real Time."
Well, perhaps you just need to pay closer attention?
WHAT??
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Rosenritter
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Like when Jesus returned, that was real time as well? Do you have Preterist leanings? And that resurrection of the dead, do you claim that is past as well? Because John witnessed the dead resurrected and stand before God. And he witnessed over a thousand years of history.
Revelation 20:5-7 KJV
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
(7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
How could that be real-time when the vision covered more than one thousand years?
Rosenritter
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Grosnick, please clarify. Do you believe God will give immortality to the wicked? YES or NO?
Rosenritter
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Are you assuming the devil is immortal? YES or NO please. And then, why? Because my Bible says that Jesus Christ only hath immortality.
1 Timothy 6:14-16 KJV
(14) That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(15) Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
If you're asking, Do you believe the unsaved have immortality concerning their soul? I'd have to say, yes. We all have a Soul that will live eternally, whether we are saved or unsaved.
Satan will suffer in the Lake of Fire for eternity. Spiritual beings do not die.
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Of course!
Sin is any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God, in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission. See (1 John 3:4; Romans 4:15; Romans 6:12-17; Romans 7:5-24).
Unbelief is a moral belief. Sin is a moral evil.
The names used in Scripture for sin point to its moral character.
1. Chatta'th - an action that misses its mark, deviating from the right way
2. 'Avel and 'avon - a want of integrity and rectitude, a departure from the appointed path
3. Pesha - a revolt or a refusal of subjection to proper authority, a positive transgression of the law, and a breaking of the covenant
4. Resha' - a wicked and guilty departure from the law
5. 'Asham - unfaithfulness and treason,
8. Ma'al - vanity
9. 'Aven - perversion or distortion of nature (crookedness) by 'avah
10. New Testament words for sin - hamartia, adikia, parabasis, paraptoma, anomia, paranomia, and others - point us to the same ideas
From the above there can be no doubt about the ethical character of sin.
Sin is not a calamity that came upon man unsuspectingly, poisoning his life, and ruining his happiness. Sin is an evil path deliberately chosen by man to follow and which carries untold miseries with it.
Basically, sin is not something passive, such as a weakness, a fault, or an imperfection, for which man cannot be held responsible. Sin is opposition to God, and transgression of His law, which constitutes guilt. Sin is the result of a free but evil choice of man, especially the first man, Adam, in who we have all sinned from birth. The teachings of the Scriptures plainly teach as such (see Gen. 3:1-6; Isaiah 48:8; Rom. 1:18-32; I John 3:4).
Accordingly,
1. God is perfectly righteous;
2. Sin is an affront to God’s holiness;
3. Therefore God will punish sin, since a debt is owed Him;
4. All sins have one root from which all other sin springs forth – unbelief;
5. Therefore, God punishes those, or their surety, for the debt owed;
6. If God punishes those that sin, and all sins spring from unbelief, then unbelief is a sin;
7. All sin has been atoned on behalf of the living by Christ’s death, but one, the sin of unbelief;
8. That sin, unbelief, is atoned for those that believe before they meet death;
9. Atonement for unbelief necessarily is atonement for all other sins springing forth from unbelief; and
10. In fact, it could be said that the only persons in Hell are unbelievers, for dying in one’s unbelief is the only sin that condemns one to eternal damnation.
AMR
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My mind works very fast, you'll have to keep up.
Rosenritter
New member
John 3:15-16 KJV
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Then I would say that your belief would make the words of the gospel of none effect, and has disdain for the sacrifice of Christ Why would Jesus offer eternal life as a gift if it was something that we had already? Perhaps John could use your help. Maybe he should have said, "God so loved the world, that whosoever believeth in him should not suffer never ending torment, but have everlasting happiness?"
Rosenritter
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Says whom? Ezekiel says they do. He describes the death of the devil, in fire, at the end of the world, and says that he shall be reduced to ashes. Don't tell me you attempted to read Revelation and skipped the prophets and Old Testament of which it references?
But if you say that fire doesn't hurt spirits, then how is casting them into a fire supposed to do anything?
Now don't respond with a typical knee jerk response until you've read Ezekiel and know the passages in question. Or you could plead ignorance and I'll help speed this up by posting it for everyone. I'm willing to grant that you may not have seen them before. No offense meant, it can happen to the best of us.
Preterists are those who believe all of the prophecies of the Bible have already occurred in 70AD or some such nonsense. It's a false doctrine and a silly one at that.
Post the verses of which you speak.
Sorry but, I've previously read/studied the entire Bible word for word, cover to cover, and name by name. I continue to do so.
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The man denies the Trinity, so you already have evidence of said deficiencies.
AMR
First of all, Christ was speaking to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. He was preaching "The Kingdom Message" to them. There's a difference between eternal life and eternal death. Eternal life is for those who are children of God. Whereas, Eternal death is for those who'll spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. They are considered "Spiritually dead."