Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[God's Truth]

Well they were links to me responding to you, so yes, they were not that impressive given your errors. Rather they are quite embarrassing for you. :AMR:

AMR

You are wrong.

Now tell me what scripture says God saves unbelievers.

 

[Rosenritter]

Can you answer my question? Do you affirm the Trinity?

Scripture's Good News; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 8:1; 10:9; 10:13, presumes something about the object of one's faith, Jesus Christ.

My post describes what that something entails from the full counsel of Scripture. These somethings have been described by the church in answer to the numerous heresies the church was dealing with at the time and yet still plague the church today,

The Chalcedonian Definition is one of the few statements that all of orthodox Christendom recognizes as the most faithful summary of the teachings of the Scriptures on the matter of the Incarnate Christ. The Chalcedonian Definition was the answer to the many heterodoxies identified above during the third century.

Let's see how its summaries compare to the Scriptures you are seeking...

The Chalcedonian Definition begins with its didactic position, which, lays out the guiding principle of God the Son being taught to be confessed by mankind (Romans 10:9). The definition is in concert with Holy Scripture as it affirms the nature of Jesus Christ. The Scripture conveys Jesus as being both God (John 1:1,15; Colossians 1:15-17; Hebrews 1:8-10), and man (John 1:14). In John 8:46, Jesus spoke of His own sinlessness in the presence of His opponents by asking “which one of you convicts me of sin?”, a question to which no reply was given. The silence speaks volumes. As God, Jesus is holy and without sin. As Man, He is holy and without sin (Hebrews 4:15). He is the eternal, consubstantial, co-essential God (John 1:2).

The Definition proceeds to explain the origins of Jesus’ humanity. He was “born of the virgin Mary,” (Matthew 1:18-24). However, Scripture is opposed to God having a beginning (Isaiah 43:10). Therefore, “Mary” being “the Mother of God,” though it may be qualified in the creed by “according to the Manhood,” is somewhat of an aberration as it pertains to the nature of God. God has no beginning. Mary gave birth to Christ’ humanity, not His divinity. Yet, the two natures, that of humanity and divinity exist in the Person of Jesus Christ is in harmony with the Scripture. Jesus asserts that He was with God before the world began, sharing in His glory (John 17:5). An interesting parallel to this passage is found in Isaiah 42:8. There, we have the teaching that says God’s glory is not shared with anything or anyone. The church had to rightly conclude that such statements point directly to the fullness of Christ deity (Colossians 1:19).

The teaching of Jesus’ humanity is promulgated throughout the text of Scripture, as well. Certainly, the Apostle John gave us some of the most direct statements pertaining to the nature of Christ. One of the most notable is found in the preface of his Gospel. John 1:14 is unambiguous in declaring what God the Son became. The word ginomai denotes a coming into being. Thus, Christ became what He was not in eternity past, namely, human. Furthermore, from John’s teaching it cannot be deduced that putting on flesh changed the divinity of Christ. Therefore, recognition of deity and humanity, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably, is of necessity. Any teaching to the contrary is against the plain teaching of Scripture.

Lastly, the Chalcedonian Definition gives clarification as to the origin of what it teaches. What the Definition expresses with regards to the teachings on the nature of Christ, is that it comes from the prophets, from the teaching of the Christ, and from the tradition of the church. In other words, Scripture has set forth this teaching concerning the one Person and one Subsistence of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The question remains then. Is this what the Scripture teaches? The Scriptural proof, what the Old Testament teaches, what Christ Himself taught, and what the Apostles have given us is ample proof that Jesus Christ is the only of His kind. He is the God-Man. The one who was from the beginning and condescended to become a man in obedience to His Father’s will, being abased and exalted on behalf of sinful humanity (Philippians 2:6-8).

Accordingly, as Scripture teaches, men are to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ as described above. Those that fail to do so have set their faith upon the sands of intellectual idols and cannot be considered saved.

You have your answer. Can you now answer my question above?

AMR

Notice that he never defines "Trinity" from scripture. A lot of creeds and other writings. He can't point to a scripture that says what this "Trinity" is though. Yet he will condemn someone who has the Son.

1 John 2:23 KJV
(23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

AMR doesn't seem to believe that though. Whereas scripture says if you accept Jesus you have everything, AMR says you need something different. Something not defined in scripture.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Now tell me what scripture says God saves unbelievers.

Asked and answered. Slow down and keep up.

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

Asked and answered. Slow down and keep up.

AMR

Give one scripture at a time, no links. Post the scripture in its entirety and show us all where God saves unbelievers.

 

[God's Truth]

Notice that he never defines "Trinity" from scripture. A lot of creeds and other writings. He can't point to a scripture that says what this "Trinity" is though. Yet he will condemn someone who has the Son.

1 John 2:23 KJV
(23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

AMR doesn't seem to believe that though. Whereas scripture says if you accept Jesus you have everything, AMR says you need something different. Something not defined in scripture.

AMR cannot answer questions given to him about his beliefs.

The scriptures plainly say that God is One and there is no one beside Him.

I am still waiting for the scriptures that say God saves unbelievers. He posts references to twenty scriptures and hides his ignorance in insults and Calvinistic lingo and many links.

There is no scripture that says God saves unbelievers.

His beliefs fall apart at that truth, and he does not want to face it.

 

[God's Truth]

Your desperation and frustration is getting the best of you, lady. So now you want to move the goalposts past your obvious Trinity errors onto something else hoping the former gets lost in the shuffle. Sigh.

Who were those formally saved by God? What was their moral condition?

Answer: Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14

In other words, the unregenerate is deceitful and desperately sick, full of evil, not able to come to Jesus unless given to by God, must be quickened by God, cannot choose righteousness until regenerated, loves darkness rather than light, is unrighteous, does not understand, does not seek for God, is helpless and ungodly, is dead in his trespasses and sins, is by nature a child of wrath, cannot understand spiritual things, and is a slave of sin.

All such as described and chosen by God were quickened from spiritual death to life. That is these so chosen were given the moral ability to believe rightly (Eze. 36:26).

At the instant of their regeneration they possessed the ability to irrevocably choose the good.

So, as I have answered you in the past on this very same question, if you are playing word games that intend to mean that these regenerated persons, following their re-birth, believed and were saved, then there is no issue with your unstated intentions.

But first, to avoid the confusion which you are proliferating with infelicitous words, you need to admit that those so saved after re-birth could not possibly have re-birthed themselves, given their morally unable state, until God first regenerated (re-birthed) them and then granted them the very faith they claim.

This is now the second time I have answered this question for you. My kingdom for a man or woman who actually keeps up with all their words. :AMR:

AMR

Get rid of your old material that you merely copy and paste, and debate me by posting out each scripture in its entirely and prove to me it says what you claim.

NONE of those scripture say what you claim they say.

 

[God's Truth]

In other words,

No, I do not want ‘other’ words. I want God’s Word.

the unregenerate is deceitful and desperately sick,

Nowhere do the scriptures say that all are in such a state.

full of evil, not able to come to Jesus unless given to by God, must be quickened by God, cannot choose righteousness until regenerated,

No scripture says that. Prove it by posting the scripture that says that.

loves darkness rather than light,

Not all love darkness rather than light.

The scriptures plainly say there are those WHO COME TO THE LIGHT.

is unrighteous,

There are many scriptures that tell us there were righteous people.

does not understand, does not seek for God, is helpless and ungodly, is dead in his trespasses and sins, is by nature a child of wrath, cannot understand spiritual things, and is a slave of sin.

Again that is not all people.

All such as described and chosen by God were quickened from spiritual death to life. That is these so chosen were given the moral ability to believe rightly (Eze. 36:26).

No one is given the Holy Spirit until they obey God. See Acts 5:32.

At the instant of their regeneration they possessed the ability to irrevocably choose the good.

God does NOT save unbelievers.

So, as I have answered you in the past on this very same question, if you are playing word games that intend to mean that these regenerated persons, following their re-birth, believed and were saved, then there is no issue with your unstated intentions.

But first, to avoid the confusion which you are proliferating with infelicitous words, you need to admit that those so saved after re-birth could not possibly have re-birthed themselves, given their morally unable state, until God first regenerated (re-birthed) them and then granted them the very faith they claim.

Jesus saves us all on his own, and he chooses whom he saves; he chooses those who believe and obey.

This is now the second time I have answered this question for you. My kingdom for a man or woman who actually keeps up with all their words.

Give one scripture at a time and show exactly where you get your beliefs from.

It is not debating the scriptures when you post references then give a long speech.

 

[God's Truth]

Answer: Jer. 17:9;

“The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?”

That is about a heart that is deceitful. That scripture does NOT say all hearts are deceitful.

Mark 7:21-23;

20He continued: “What comes out of a man, that is what defiles him. 21For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft,murder, adultery, 22greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness.…


Those scripture are about what comes out of an evil man.

Not all men are so evil. Jesus says there are men with good hearts.


Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”


Matthew 12:35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.


John 18:37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

Eph. 2:2;

“in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.”

That scripture does NOT say they were supernaturally made to leave their life of sin.

Read Ephesians 1:13 , it says they were included in Christ WHEN THEY HEARD THE MESSAGE.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,


Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

 

[God's Truth]

Eph. 2:4-5;

4But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!


Those scripture are about how the Gentiles were dead in their transgressions and sins and did not do the purification/ceremonial works.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Titus 3:5;

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;”

That scripture is about not of the righteous works of the law that the people used to have to do to clean themselves. We are now cleaned by the Holy Spirit.

 

[marhig]

Can you answer my question? Do you affirm the Trinity?

Scripture's Good News; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 8:1; 10:9; 10:13, presumes something about the object of one's faith, Jesus Christ.

My post describes what that something entails from the full counsel of Scripture. These somethings have been described by the church in answer to the numerous heresies the church was dealing with at the time and yet still plague the church today,

The Chalcedonian Definition is one of the few statements that all of orthodox Christendom recognizes as the most faithful summary of the teachings of the Scriptures on the matter of the Incarnate Christ. The Chalcedonian Definition was the answer to the many heterodoxies identified above during the third century.

Let's see how its summaries compare to the Scriptures you are seeking...

The Chalcedonian Definition begins with its didactic position, which, lays out the guiding principle of God the Son being taught to be confessed by mankind (Romans 10:9). The definition is in concert with Holy Scripture as it affirms the nature of Jesus Christ. The Scripture conveys Jesus as being both God (John 1:1,15; Colossians 1:15-17; Hebrews 1:8-10), and man (John 1:14). In John 8:46, Jesus spoke of His own sinlessness in the presence of His opponents by asking “which one of you convicts me of sin?”, a question to which no reply was given. The silence speaks volumes. As God, Jesus is holy and without sin. As Man, He is holy and without sin (Hebrews 4:15). He is the eternal, consubstantial, co-essential God (John 1:2).

The Definition proceeds to explain the origins of Jesus’ humanity. He was “born of the virgin Mary,” (Matthew 1:18-24). However, Scripture is opposed to God having a beginning (Isaiah 43:10). Therefore, “Mary” being “the Mother of God,” though it may be qualified in the creed by “according to the Manhood,” is somewhat of an aberration as it pertains to the nature of God. God has no beginning. Mary gave birth to Christ’ humanity, not His divinity. Yet, the two natures, that of humanity and divinity exist in the Person of Jesus Christ is in harmony with the Scripture. Jesus asserts that He was with God before the world began, sharing in His glory (John 17:5). An interesting parallel to this passage is found in Isaiah 42:8. There, we have the teaching that says God’s glory is not shared with anything or anyone. The church had to rightly conclude that such statements point directly to the fullness of Christ deity (Colossians 1:19).

The teaching of Jesus’ humanity is promulgated throughout the text of Scripture, as well. Certainly, the Apostle John gave us some of the most direct statements pertaining to the nature of Christ. One of the most notable is found in the preface of his Gospel. John 1:14 is unambiguous in declaring what God the Son became. The word ginomai denotes a coming into being. Thus, Christ became what He was not in eternity past, namely, human. Furthermore, from John’s teaching it cannot be deduced that putting on flesh changed the divinity of Christ. Therefore, recognition of deity and humanity, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably, is of necessity. Any teaching to the contrary is against the plain teaching of Scripture.

Lastly, the Chalcedonian Definition gives clarification as to the origin of what it teaches. What the Definition expresses with regards to the teachings on the nature of Christ, is that it comes from the prophets, from the teaching of the Christ, and from the tradition of the church. In other words, Scripture has set forth this teaching concerning the one Person and one Subsistence of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The question remains then. Is this what the Scripture teaches? The Scriptural proof, what the Old Testament teaches, what Christ Himself taught, and what the Apostles have given us is ample proof that Jesus Christ is the only of His kind. He is the God-Man. The one who was from the beginning and condescended to become a man in obedience to His Father’s will, being abased and exalted on behalf of sinful humanity (Philippians 2:6-8).

Accordingly, as Scripture teaches, men are to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ as described above. Those that fail to do so have set their faith upon the sands of intellectual idols and cannot be considered saved.

You have your answer. Can you now answer my question above?

AMR

Sorry, but, could you please just print the whole verse that says that those who don't believe in the trinity aren't of Christ? Thank you.

By the way, No I don't believe in the trinity, I believe in the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. Which Jesus said is life eternal.

I also believe this, which you have included in your post as a requirement, Romans 10:9. I also agree with all those verses you posted!

Romans 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I don't only confess the lord Jesus from my mouth, I love him and God my father with all my heart! And I know that God has raised Jesus from the dead without any doubt whatsoever!

 

[God's Truth]

John 3:19;

“This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.”

You forgot this scripture that explains how some do come to the light:

John 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

Rom. 3:10-12;

10As it is written:“There is no one righteous, not even one; 11There is no one who understands; no one who seeks God.…

Paul is quoting Psalm14:1-3; 53:1-3; and Ecclesiastes 7:20. Ecclesiastes SAYS there is not a RIGHTEOUS man who does what is right and NEVER SINS. Ecclesiastes tells us that there ARE RIGHTEOUS men but none who NEVER sin. Paul is explaining that the Jews were sinners just like the Gentiles. Nowhere in these passages or scriptures anywhere does it say none can believe on their own. In this same Ecclesiastes 7, Solomon tells us about wise men, righteous men, and about a man who pleases God. Solomon also tells us that he found one upright man among a thousand. The Bible tells us that there are people who want to do right.

Isaiah 64:4 For from days of old they have not heard or perceived by ear, Nor has the eye seen a God besides You, Who acts in behalf of the one who waits for Him. 5You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness, Who remembers You in Your ways. Behold, You were angry, for we sinned, We continued in them a long time; And shall we be saved?


In Romans 3:21, we see that those who want to obey God--now is made known a way--faith in Jesus Christ. The way has been MADE KNOWN. The way is not some secret that a select few get to know about, in some mysterious way. The way has been MADE KNOWN. We have the choice to believe in God or reject Him.
The scriptures say that this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ TO ALL WHO BELIEVE. This does NOT even imply that God MAKES humans BELIEVE. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE, FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD...


To further explain what Paul says, he speaks of a time in which David speaks, the people are in a bad condition inside Israel. When the day spoken of arrived, no one searched for God.
If no one ever searched for God, ever, then how was it that the Israelites called out to God to help them when they thought God had forgotten them while they were slaves in Egypt?
Exodus 3:9 And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them.
Deuteronomy 26:7
Then we cried out to the LORD, the God of our ancestors, and the LORD heard our voice and saw our misery, toil and oppression.
If no one ever searched for God, then why do the scriptures say people did?
In the New Testament, when Jesus arrived, people shouted: “Son of David, have mercy on me”. They were looking for the Messiah. In the New Testament a blind man was searching for the Son of God, the prophet’s had said would come. I just showed you that people do search for God. Again, Paul was explaining that the Jews were sinners like the Gentiles, even though the Jews were supposed to be God’s Holy people.

 

[God's Truth]

1 Cor. 2:14

“The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.”

Paul is speaking about those who reject Christ. Paul is NOT speaking about every person ever.

That scripture is about the man who lives to please his flesh, it is about natural man. However, we are not just flesh we are also spirit. Not everyone only lives to please his or her flesh.

Hebrews 12:9, Zechariah 12:1, and Malachi 2:15.

 

[beloved57]

Pateism and Calvinism make God unjust. Pate and you condemn people for obeying God.

What you teach and pate teach are the same, they glorify the sinner man and detract from the Obedience of Christ. And as i told you, you dont obey God, since you deny Salvation by the Obedience of Christ alone ! Men are not saved, made right with God by obeying Him, but by Christ obeying Him for them !

 

[TulipBee]

Repent is of sins and it is something on has to do to be saved.



If it were as you say, then why does God search our hearts?

You ask atheist questions

 

[God's Truth]

You ask atheist questions

How do you get that is an atheist question?

God searches our hearts. If only evil was in our hearts, then why does God search in there?

 

[God's Truth]

What you teach and pate teach are the same, they glorify the sinner man and detract from the Obedience of Christ. And as i told you, you dont obey God, since you deny Salvation by the Obedience of Christ alone ! Men are not saved, made right with God by obeying Him, but by Christ obeying Him for them !

How do you ever get obeying the King is wrong?

 

[TulipBee]

How do you get that is an atheist question?

God searches our hearts. If only evil was in our hearts, then why does God search in there?

You deny your heart is rotten to the core.

 

[God's Truth]

You deny your heart is rotten to the core.

Of course, I deny that.

Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”


Matthew 12:35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.


John 18:37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

 

[God's Truth]

God searches our hearts, obeying the King is not wrong, there are people with good hearts.

You do not look at the scripture and come to the truth because you enjoy the snare.

 

[TulipBee]

Of course, I deny that.

Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”


Matthew 12:35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.


John 18:37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

You demand God that you're good enough to earn your salvation. Cult dreams