Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[patrick jane]

Wrong again Nang.

 

[God's Truth]

Belief (faith) comes from the grace of God, alone. For God alone, is faithful.

I just gave you scriptures that tell us faith comes from hearing, being taught, convinced, and persuaded.

No sinner has faith within his being, with which to believe. That is the universal curse of mankind.

Again, faith comes from hearing, being taught, convinced, and persuaded.

Faith is a divine attribute of God only, but one He has chosen to communicate to many of His creatures.

Brute beasts and spiritually dead humans do not possess this attribute. God must gift it to those He has chosen to redeem from corruption and death. Ephesians 2:1-10

In those scriptures, Ephesians 2:1, it states, "...you were dead in your transgressions and sins."

THAT is about the Gentiles who did not obey the purification/ceremonial works to atone for their souls. Please look at the scriptures from Ephesians 2:11 and on...it is about CIRCUMCISION, and how the Gentiles were NOT circumcised.

Now go to Ephesians 2:4, it says Christ made you alive while you were still dead in transgressions. That means that God did NOT make you get circumcised before He would save you.

Now look where it says not of by works...that is about not of by the purification/ceremonial works of circumcision.

As for Ephesians 2:10, Paul speaks of good works, but those good works do not save. What are the good works we do after we are saved and not before to get saved? Those good works that do not save are the works the Ephesians did...they were kind to the saints. Paul is making it clear that the Ephesians being kind to the saints did NOT get the Ephesians saved. See Ephesians 1:15.

The Ephesians most undoubtedly welcomed the saints into their homes, fed them, washed their clothes, and gave them a place to sleep. Those are good works too, but those works are not why they were saved. They were saved because they believed and repented of their sins.

 

[God's Truth]

Save those before they were even born. "Not by men" means that. Your earning does nothing

God does not save us before we are born. What is the point of Christ dying for us if we were already saved and can still live as sinners?

 

[TulipBee]

God does not save us before we are born. What is the point of Christ dying for us if we were already saved and can still live as sinners?

God is at two+ places at the same time. No space involved. If God knew you before you were born then you existed then. You only respond to your flesh. Its all you know. Someone else us telling you the fables of earning your salvation so you can feel good. The devil say if it feels good, you do it like a fool.

Why do you go door to door asking others to pay your tithing anyway?

 

[God's Truth]

God is at two+ places at the same time. No space involved. If God knew you before you were born then you existed then.

Just because God knows who would accept Him or not, it does not mean He made us accept Him.

You only respond to your flesh. Its all you know.

What?

We are flesh and spirit. I am spiritual. I make my body a living sacrifice to God, as we are told to do.

Someone else us telling you the fables of earning your salvation so you can feel good. The devil say if it feels good, you do it like a fool.

It does feel good to obey Jesus.

Where do you get that it is of the devil to feel good for obeying Jesus?

Come and taste that the Lord is good. See Psalm 34:8 Taste and see that the LORD is good;

Psalm 119:103
How sweet are Your words to my taste! Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth!


Even little children are taught about how good the Lord is when they taste good food.

When they say it tastes good, I say the Lord's words taste good and even better.

Why do you go door to door asking others to pay your tithing anyway?

What? Tithing is of the old law.

 

[TulipBee]

Just because God knows who would accept Him or not, it does not mean He made us accept Him.




What?

We are flesh and spirit. I am spiritual. I make my body a living sacrifice to God, as we are told to do.



It does feel good to obey Jesus.

Where do you get that it is of the devil to feel good for obeying Jesus?

Come and taste that the Lord is good. See Psalm 34:8 Taste and see that the LORD is good;

Psalm 119:103
How sweet are Your words to my taste! Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth!


Even little children are taught about how good the Lord is when they taste good food.

When they say it tastes good, I say the Lord's words taste good and even better.



What? Tithing is of the old law.

An atheist can do everything you did cause its works. You pretend.

 

[beloved57]

The topic of this thread is "Does Calvinism Make God Unjust". Why not just stay on topic?

Pateism makes God unjust. It has the Righteous going to perish in their sins!

 

[God's Truth]

An atheist can do everything you did cause its works. You pretend.

If an atheist wants to be saved then he can search and find out how.

 

[God's Truth]

Pateism makes God unjust. It has the Righteous going to perish in their sins!

Pateism and Calvinism make God unjust. Pate and you condemn people for obeying God.

 

[TulipBee]

If an atheist wants to be saved then he can search and find out how.

Millions of proclaimed believers hold to their own free will and ultimate determination over self. Pray for repentance.

God's Divine Sovereignty is pictured clearly throughout the Sacred Writ for all to see. This Omnipotent God is not some absentee Landlord who just creates and the lets go of the whole matter of such, this to let it by itself run a course of uncertainty. No! God rules and over rules in the matters of man. Even before He starts something at point A , point Z is not only in view but is the designated point at which all must come to be. And everything that falls in between the beginning and end points are too already predetermined ; every letter of the alphabet will run its unaltered course. The sequence cannot be broken; sooner the sun would rise in the west than a sparrow fall to the ground without God's leave.

 

[God's Truth]

Millions of proclaimed believers hold to their own free will and ultimate determination over self. Pray for repentance.

Repent is of sins and it is something on has to do to be saved.

God's Divine Sovereignty is pictured clearly throughout the Sacred Writ for all to see. This Omnipotent God is not some absentee Landlord who just creates and the lets go of the whole matter of such, this to let it by itself run a course of uncertainty. No! God rules and over rules in the matters of man. Even before He starts something at point A , point Z is not only in view but is the designated point at which all must come to be. And everything that falls in between the beginning and end points are too already predetermined ; every letter of the alphabet will run its unaltered course. The sequence cannot be broken; sooner the sun would rise in the west than a sparrow fall to the ground without God's leave.

If it were as you say, then why does God search our hearts?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Stop with the demeaning untruths, for you brought up Paul and did not use any truth of scripture.

You want proof that Paul's conversion proves Calvinism false, you got it.

When Paul finally believed in Christ, Paul was NOT yet saved. Paul still had to obey. That PROVES Calvinism is false.

Why didn't Jesus just make Paul believe and save him at that time? Why did Jesus have to appear to him?

Paul finally believed and still had to do what Jesus said to do.

When you master the difference between an opinion and an actual argument, you will be doing better. Paul believed the call he received directly from My Lord. That is obedience (doing one's duty), for his very faith, and that of all believers' faith at the instant of regeneration is granted by God (Eze. 36:26).

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

When you master the difference between an opinion and an actual argument, you will be doing better.

...more worthless demeaning words from you.

Paul believed the call he received directly from My Lord. That is obedience (doing one's duty), for his very faith, and that of all believers' faith at the instant of regeneration is granted by God (Eze. 36:26).

AMR

Paul believed and still was not saved. Paul was saved after he believed and obeyed.

Acts 9:6 "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Sir, you mistake what I say for haste.

Let me put it differently since you didn't get it the first time. No doubt due to my poor articulation of what I am generally attempting to say. (not sarcasm)

Entering into a lengthy discussion with another, say a hyper-calvinist, about reconciliation without first understanding that these folks believe in eternal justification, means you will spend much time going back and forth before it is finally made light, if at all, that they presuppose a view that you are not actually discussing. I am suggesting you be a good steward of the time God grants you to participate in said discussions. A person's position is easily determined in most cases by simply visiting their profile page and reviewing the last 100 posts they have made. Further, one can use the search feature to examine their posts on any topic in the past beyond the last 100 posts available at the profile page. Or one could simply click their username above their avatar and select "View forum posts".

I understand that some discussions are but idle banter to wile away the time. But when it comes to matters of the faith, there is no idle banter or time to waste.

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

(Eze. 36:26).

I see you like to use Ezekiel 36:26 to prove your false beliefs.

Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

God says that he will do that.

But when will God do that?

God does that after we repent of our sins.

Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?

Did you read that?

What is God saying for them to do so that they can get a new heart?

They have to repent of their sins.

Why are they dying, AMR?

They are dying because they will not obey and repent of their sins.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

AMR,

Tell me, did Jesus save Paul before he believed? NO. Yet that is what Calvinists say. Did Jesus save Paul the moment he believed? NO. Yet that is what Calvinists say.

When Paul found out that it was Jesus speaking to him, Paul believed. He still was NOT saved.

Jesus told him where to go, Paul obeyed and went. Did Paul get saved then? NO. Paul did not eat or drink for three days, and he spent that time praying. Can you imagine the prayers of Paul?! Paul no doubt was crying and asking God to forgive him for all his sins.

You are essentially repeating your previous response, again with unsubstantiated opinions. I have responded to your attempt to move the goal posts from our earlier discussion this afternoon about your anti-Trinitarian errors.

Please keep up:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4822805&viewfull=1#post4822805
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4822814&viewfull=1#post4822814
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4822826&viewfull=1#post4822826
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4822838&viewfull=1#post4822838
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4822848&viewfull=1#post4822848

and this:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4823142&viewfull=1#post4823142

Your own argument above with Paul praying for three days illustrates your error in denying he was not yet saved. Why? Review this once more. Think about it and perhaps it will come to you.

It should come as no surprise that you misunderstand regeneration and faith given your confusion about the Trinity.

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

Your own argument above with Paul praying for three days illustrates your error in denying he was not yet saved. Why? once more. Think about it and perhaps it will come to you.

He was not yet saved. He was told what he had to do. He was still blind. He fasted and prayed.

Your many links are not impressive to me.

It should come as no surprise that you misunderstand regeneration and faith given your confusion about the Trinity.

No. You are wrong. Now try to debate without demeaning people.

 

[God's Truth]

AMR,

I am still waiting for you to give scripture which states that God saves unbelievers.

Where in the scriptures has God saved anyone in their state of unbelief?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Can you show me where it is in the Bible though?

To make such an accusation as this (below) then you should be able to back it up with the scriptures?

Can you answer my question? Do you affirm the Trinity?

Scripture's Good News; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 8:1; 10:9; 10:13, presumes something about the object of one's faith, Jesus Christ.

My post describes what that something entails from the full counsel of Scripture. These somethings have been described by the church in answer to the numerous heresies the church was dealing with at the time and yet still plague the church today,

The Chalcedonian Definition is one of the few statements that all of orthodox Christendom recognizes as the most faithful summary of the teachings of the Scriptures on the matter of the Incarnate Christ. The Chalcedonian Definition was the answer to the many heterodoxies identified above during the third century.

Let's see how its summaries compare to the Scriptures you are seeking...

The Chalcedonian Definition begins with its didactic position, which, lays out the guiding principle of God the Son being taught to be confessed by mankind (Romans 10:9). The definition is in concert with Holy Scripture as it affirms the nature of Jesus Christ. The Scripture conveys Jesus as being both God (John 1:1,15; Colossians 1:15-17; Hebrews 1:8-10), and man (John 1:14). In John 8:46, Jesus spoke of His own sinlessness in the presence of His opponents by asking “which one of you convicts me of sin?”, a question to which no reply was given. The silence speaks volumes. As God, Jesus is holy and without sin. As Man, He is holy and without sin (Hebrews 4:15). He is the eternal, consubstantial, co-essential God (John 1:2).

The Definition proceeds to explain the origins of Jesus’ humanity. He was “born of the virgin Mary,” (Matthew 1:18-24). However, Scripture is opposed to God having a beginning (Isaiah 43:10). Therefore, “Mary” being “the Mother of God,” though it may be qualified in the creed by “according to the Manhood,” is somewhat of an aberration as it pertains to the nature of God. God has no beginning. Mary gave birth to Christ’ humanity, not His divinity. Yet, the two natures, that of humanity and divinity exist in the Person of Jesus Christ is in harmony with the Scripture. Jesus asserts that He was with God before the world began, sharing in His glory (John 17:5). An interesting parallel to this passage is found in Isaiah 42:8. There, we have the teaching that says God’s glory is not shared with anything or anyone. The church had to rightly conclude that such statements point directly to the fullness of Christ deity (Colossians 1:19).

The teaching of Jesus’ humanity is promulgated throughout the text of Scripture, as well. Certainly, the Apostle John gave us some of the most direct statements pertaining to the nature of Christ. One of the most notable is found in the preface of his Gospel. John 1:14 is unambiguous in declaring what God the Son became. The word ginomai denotes a coming into being. Thus, Christ became what He was not in eternity past, namely, human. Furthermore, from John’s teaching it cannot be deduced that putting on flesh changed the divinity of Christ. Therefore, recognition of deity and humanity, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably, is of necessity. Any teaching to the contrary is against the plain teaching of Scripture.

Lastly, the Chalcedonian Definition gives clarification as to the origin of what it teaches. What the Definition expresses with regards to the teachings on the nature of Christ, is that it comes from the prophets, from the teaching of the Christ, and from the tradition of the church. In other words, Scripture has set forth this teaching concerning the one Person and one Subsistence of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The question remains then. Is this what the Scripture teaches? The Scriptural proof, what the Old Testament teaches, what Christ Himself taught, and what the Apostles have given us is ample proof that Jesus Christ is the only of His kind. He is the God-Man. The one who was from the beginning and condescended to become a man in obedience to His Father’s will, being abased and exalted on behalf of sinful humanity (Philippians 2:6-8).

Accordingly, as Scripture teaches, men are to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ as described above. Those that fail to do so have set their faith upon the sands of intellectual idols and cannot be considered saved.

You have your answer. Can you now answer my question above?

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Your many links are not impressive to me.

Well they were links to me responding to you, so yes, they were not that impressive given your errors. Rather they are quite embarrassing for you. :AMR:

AMR