Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

God's Truth

God's Truth

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AMR,

Tell me, did Jesus save Paul before he believed? NO. Yet that is what Calvinists say. Did Jesus save Paul the moment he believed? NO. Yet that is what Calvinists say.

When Paul found out that it was Jesus speaking to him, Paul believed. He still was NOT saved.

Jesus told him where to go, Paul obeyed and went. Did Paul get saved then? NO. Paul did not eat or drink for three days, and he spent that time praying. Can you imagine the prayers of Paul?! Paul no doubt was crying and asking God to forgive him for all his sins.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Jesus saved Paul after Paul believed and obeyed him.

When Paul was on the road to Damascus, Jesus spoke to him and Paul believed. Paul was not then saved.

Acts 9:5 "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.

6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."…

Paul had to obey Jesus before Jesus saved him...Paul had to go where Jesus told him to go; Paul went.

After Paul went, he fasted; he did not eat or drink anything for three days.

Acts 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Paul spent this time praying. If you do not think that Paul spent this time begging for forgiveness and repenting, then you would be badly mistaken.

Acts 9:11 The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.

When Paul had his vision restored to him, he was told to get up, be baptized and wash his sins away, calling on the Lord.

When people were baptized with water that was symbolic of having their sins washed away, after they repented.

In addition, people came out of the water after repenting and being baptized, they called upon the name of the Lord.

We are told to believe, and repent, and to call upon the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'


Paul did what we all are told to do.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Paul's conversion is proof that Calvinism is FALSE.

Paul was NOT saved and made to believe and obey.

Paul believed and obeyed and THEN he was saved.
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Ask Mr. Religion said:
Do you affirm the Trinity?

If one is rightly confessing Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, then by the good and necessary consequence of Scripture's teachings about exactly who Jesus Christ is—fully God and fully man in an indissoluble union whereby the second subsistence of the Trinity assumed a human nature that cannot be separated, divided, mixed, or confused—then one is confessing the Triune Godhead. To do otherwise is to confess an intellectual idol of one's own making.

The mystical union of the divine and human natures of Our Lord is not:

1. a denial that our Lord was truly God (Ebionites, Elkasites, Arians);
2. a dissimilar or different substance (anomoios) with the Father (semi-Arianism);
3. a denial that our Lord had a genuine human soul (Apollinarians);
4. a denial of a distinct subsistence in the Trinity (Dynamic Monarchianism);
5. God acting merely in the forms of the Son and Spirit (Modalistic Monarchianism/Sabellianism/United Pentecostal Church);
6. a mixture or change when the two natures were united (Eutychianism/Monophysitism);
7. two distinct subsistences (often called persons) (Nestorianism);
8. a denial of the true humanity of Christ (docetism);
9. a view that God the Son laid aside all or some of His divine attributes (kenoticism);
10. a view that there was a communication of the attributes between the divine and human natures (Lutheranism, with respect to the Lord's Supper); and
11. a view that our Lord existed independently as a human before God entered His body (Adoptionism).

AMR
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Can you show me where it is in the Bible though?

To make such an accusation as this (below) then you should be able to back it up with the scriptures?

I made it clear that all who deny the Trinity have no warrant to the claim of being a Christian. That does not mean these persons cannot someday become a believer if it be the will of God.
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Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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popsthebuilder said:
I do sin daily.

I smoke cigarettes regardless of debilitating COPD.

this is transgressing against the temple or vessel GOD has blessed me with.

I had made an oath with GOD yet seemingly go against that oath. That is transgressing against my own word that I made towards GOD.

I know of GOD's will as it pertains to my own life, yet tarry about and meander along as opposed to utterly and wholly following that will. That seems to me like acting as if one is indifferent, though it is of the utmost significance. That is placing other things before the Will of GOD, idol worship.

I strive daily to remove these things from me. But I am aware of them and that they are sin to some degree. Not murder, but sin is sin.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk
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If you know it is wrong then stop. If you think that it is wrong and you continue in it, it is sin. What is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23.
 
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Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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God's Truth said:
Prove it then with scripture that God saves UNBELIEVERS!
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Who else would God need to save?

Matthew 9:12-13 KJV
(12) But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
(13) But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
marhig said:
We all sin daily, me too only in a different way. Mine is eating sweets and cakes etc. I know it's wrong before God, and I know I have to stop because i too am just ruining the body that God has given me. My auntie did the same as GMs mum with smoking. She tried many times and couldn't do it, then she went to God and said please help me, I can't do it, if you don't take this away then I'm never going to be able to do it and she begged him to help her, and he took it away.

She always tells me that when we know it's wrong then we have to suffer and deny it and pray to God for strength, she's given up many things this way as have other members of my family including myself, smoking was one if her hardest to stop, but she's 80 now and doing well. But this is my big one, like smoking is yours. I'm going to pray more and try and turn away. I don't know about you, but as soon as I try, I get tempted. And I do fall. But I'm going to have to try harder, I've cut down a lot so the next step is to stop. My husband cut out smoking by cutting down, he went down bit by bit, from 40 a day and ended up on 3 a day, then he quit. But he had my help because I hate it so much that I nagged him off them ;)

But the sins of the heart are worse, hardness, hatred wickedness, an unforgiving heart, etc.etc. these separate us from God. But I do know as you said, it's still a sin and i believe that I will suffer for the sins that I destroy my body with. As I said I've cut right down, next thing is to stop. I know one thing, as I've cut down, my arthritis has improved so that is good. So hopefully it will help you if you can cut down too. :) I hope and pray that you can. And I hope that God blesses you and gives you the strength to overcome and that he takes it away. You're not on your own. God bless
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That was very heart felt and I thank you sincerely. Do you have a heart condition or diabetes? I mean not to pry I'm just having trouble seeing sweets as sin. Though I admit excess, of anything is bad. Most sin falls into addiction for me. Bondage to these wants of the flesh, even to the point that though I can observe their negative effects on the quality and longevity of my physical life, I choose to willingly ignore it. This is partially why I want to study on free will. I have witnessed me do things contrary to what I know is good and right for myself for my whole life nearly.

Please do not think that you are condemned in any way for what you spoke of. I know for certain that things are here for our consumption or rather to ease our burdens. It is moderation that is key in your case as far as I can tell. Even moderation in my own case might suffice.

Your sincere words moved me. I would hope for blessings to be bestowed upon you, yet it is obvious you are blessed with compassion and sincerity. These things are what spiritual truths are comprised of... You are very blessed indeed.

Patience and perseverance. Let your hope and faith be your strength.

Thank you again for your motivational words. I can only hope to articulate such beauty and compassion in the future, as you have displayed today.

Humbly,

May our GOD, the GOD of creation and life bring you peace and surety in all your endeavors, by His will and your faith.


Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
Ask Mr. Religion said:
Yes, yes, your is but an old canard made even more obvious given your denial of the Trinity. If you actually had a more firm grasp of God's truths, you would not be in this situation.

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AMR
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Matthew 7:15-20 KJV
(15) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
(16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
(17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
(18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
(19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
(20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

It's much shorter to say "Servetus."
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Rosenritter said:
Who else would God need to save?

Matthew 9:12-13 KJV
(12) But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
(13) But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
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Those scripture are about how we have to repent of our sins to be saved. Those scriptures are about how we have to admit to being sinners.

You have NOT proven that God saves unbelievers.

That scripture does NOT say God saves unbelievers.

The scriptures tell us repeatedly to believe.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Rosenritter,

Calvinists beliefs are about God saving unbelievers.

There is no such scripture or scriptures which say that.

You have not proven that God saves unbelievers.

Would you like me to post the many scriptures that tell us to believe to be saved?
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
Ask Mr. Religion said:
Post the whole Scripture that says we should only drive on the right side of the road. ;)

So stop playing games like the above.

God saved Paul on the road to Damascus. Was he a believer prior to that encounter with My Lord?

Use the whole counsel of God when crafting one's doctrine. I have provided enough of said counsel in my response to indicate the state of those prior to their re-birth. If you struggle to conclude that these persons in that state are not unbelievers, nothing I can say will change your mind.

AMR
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But the encounter on the road didn't save Paul. He was given an instruction to carry out. If he had ignored the instruction he would have died blind. In more than one way. Conditional salvation.

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 KJV
(26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
(27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


Conditional upon endurance to the end. Paul was not a Calvinist.
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
God's Truth said:
Those scripture are about how we have to repent of our sins to be saved. Those scriptures are about how we have to admit to being sinners.

You have NOT proven that God saves unbelievers.

That scripture does NOT say God saves unbelievers.

The scriptures tell us repeatedly to believe.
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Perhaps it would help if you described your challenge more precisely. Your responses have been getting really short and clipped. What I did was provide scripture that proves that God wants to save unbelievers.
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Rosenritter said:
Who else would God need to save?

Matthew 9:12-13 KJV
(12) But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
(13) But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
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I agree, but although Jesus comes to save sinners if they don't believe the gospel then how can he save them?

Acts 16

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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marhig said:
I agree, but although Jesus comes to save sinners if they don't believe the gospel then how can he save them?

Acts 16

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
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That is right.

Calvinism claims God saves unbelievers and then that saving causes them to believe and obey. That is a false doctrine.
 
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