Did Christ know He was fully God?

oatmeal

Well-known member
I figure bringing back someone to life after he was dead for several days would be a divine attribute. Returning to life after being several days dead Himself, even more so.

Well according to I Thessalonians 4:16

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

"the dead in Christ shall rise first"

It says the dead in Christ shall rise.

These dead in Christ include those believers from the first century who have been dead for a couple of thousand of years.

Not just a few days!

It does not say "God shall raise them from the dead"

Verse 16 states that the dead in Christ shall rise!

Put that in your thinking for while!
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
All salvation is divine. All believers are divine.

Divine means "godly, or, from or proceeding from God"

It does not mean, "is God"

From my holy book:

II. GOD


0:2.1 Evolving mortal creatures experience an irresistible urge to symbolize their finite concepts of God. Man's consciousness of moral duty and his spiritual idealism represent a value level—an experiential reality—which is difficult of symbolization.

0:2.2 Cosmic consciousness implies the recognition of a First Cause, the one and only uncaused reality. God, the Universal Father, functions on three Deity-personality levels of subinfinite value and relative divinity expression:

1. Prepersonal—as in the ministry of the Father fragments, such as the Thought Adjusters.
2. Personal—as in the evolutionary experience of created and procreated beings.
3. Superpersonal—as in the eventuated existences of certain absonite and associated beings.

0:2.6 GOD is a word symbol designating all personalizations of Deity. The term requires a different definition on each personal level of Deity function and must be still further redefined within each of these levels, as this term may be used to designate the diverse co-ordinate and subordinate personalizations of Deity; for example: the Paradise Creator Sons—the local universe fathers.

0:2.7 The term God, as we make use of it, may be understood:

By designation—as God the Father.
By context—as when used in the discussion of some one deity level or association. When in doubt as to the exact interpretation of the word God, it would be advisable to refer it to the person of the Universal Father.

0:2.10 The term God always denotes personality. Deity may, or may not, refer to divinity personalities.

0:2.11 The word GOD is used, in these papers, with the following meanings:

1. God the Father—Creator, Controller, and Upholder. The Universal Father, the First Person of Deity.

2. God the Son—Co-ordinate Creator, Spirit Controller, and Spiritual Administrator. The Eternal Son, the Second Person of Deity.

3. God the Spirit—Conjoint Actor, Universal Integrator, and Mind Bestower. The Infinite Spirit, the Third Person of Deity.

4. God the Supreme—the actualizing or evolving God of time and space. Personal Deity associatively realizing the time-space experiential achievement of creature-Creator identity. The Supreme Being is personally experiencing the achievement of Deity unity as the evolving and experiential God of the evolutionary creatures of time and space.

5. God the Sevenfold—Deity personality anywhere actually functioning in time and space. The personal Paradise Deities and their creative associates functioning in and beyond the borders of the central universe and power-personalizing as the Supreme Being on the first creature level of unifying Deity revelation in time and space. This level, the grand universe, is the sphere of the time-space descension of Paradise personalities in reciprocal association with the time-space ascension of evolutionary creatures.

6. God the Ultimate—the eventuating God of supertime and transcended space. The second experiential level of unifying Deity manifestation. God the Ultimate implies the attained realization of the synthesized absonite-superpersonal, time-space-transcended, and eventuated-experiential values, co-ordinated on final creative levels of Deity reality.

7. God the Absolute—the experientializing God of transcended superpersonal values and divinity meanings, now existential as the Deity Absolute. This is the third level of unifying Deity expression and expansion. On this supercreative level, Deity experiences exhaustion of personalizable potential, encounters completion of divinity, and undergoes depletion of capacity for self-revelation to successive and progressive levels of other-personalization. Deity now encounters, impinges upon, and experiences identity with, the Unqualified Absolute." UB 1955
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
From my holy book:

II. GOD


0:2.1 Evolving mortal creatures experience an irresistible urge to symbolize their finite concepts of God. Man's consciousness of moral duty and his spiritual idealism represent a value level—an experiential reality—which is difficult of symbolization.

0:2.2 Cosmic consciousness implies the recognition of a First Cause, the one and only uncaused reality. God, the Universal Father, functions on three Deity-personality levels of subinfinite value and relative divinity expression:

1. Prepersonal—as in the ministry of the Father fragments, such as the Thought Adjusters.
2. Personal—as in the evolutionary experience of created and procreated beings.
3. Superpersonal—as in the eventuated existences of certain absonite and associated beings.

0:2.6 GOD is a word symbol designating all personalizations of Deity. The term requires a different definition on each personal level of Deity function and must be still further redefined within each of these levels, as this term may be used to designate the diverse co-ordinate and subordinate personalizations of Deity; for example: the Paradise Creator Sons—the local universe fathers.

0:2.7 The term God, as we make use of it, may be understood:

By designation—as God the Father.
By context—as when used in the discussion of some one deity level or association. When in doubt as to the exact interpretation of the word God, it would be advisable to refer it to the person of the Universal Father.

0:2.10 The term God always denotes personality. Deity may, or may not, refer to divinity personalities.

0:2.11 The word GOD is used, in these papers, with the following meanings:

1. God the Father—Creator, Controller, and Upholder. The Universal Father, the First Person of Deity.

2. God the Son—Co-ordinate Creator, Spirit Controller, and Spiritual Administrator. The Eternal Son, the Second Person of Deity.

3. God the Spirit—Conjoint Actor, Universal Integrator, and Mind Bestower. The Infinite Spirit, the Third Person of Deity.

4. God the Supreme—the actualizing or evolving God of time and space. Personal Deity associatively realizing the time-space experiential achievement of creature-Creator identity. The Supreme Being is personally experiencing the achievement of Deity unity as the evolving and experiential God of the evolutionary creatures of time and space.

5. God the Sevenfold—Deity personality anywhere actually functioning in time and space. The personal Paradise Deities and their creative associates functioning in and beyond the borders of the central universe and power-personalizing as the Supreme Being on the first creature level of unifying Deity revelation in time and space. This level, the grand universe, is the sphere of the time-space descension of Paradise personalities in reciprocal association with the time-space ascension of evolutionary creatures.

6. God the Ultimate—the eventuating God of supertime and transcended space. The second experiential level of unifying Deity manifestation. God the Ultimate implies the attained realization of the synthesized absonite-superpersonal, time-space-transcended, and eventuated-experiential values, co-ordinated on final creative levels of Deity reality.

7. God the Absolute—the experientializing God of transcended superpersonal values and divinity meanings, now existential as the Deity Absolute. This is the third level of unifying Deity expression and expansion. On this supercreative level, Deity experiences exhaustion of personalizable potential, encounters completion of divinity, and undergoes depletion of capacity for self-revelation to successive and progressive levels of other-personalization. Deity now encounters, impinges upon, and experiences identity with, the Unqualified Absolute." UB 1955

Your book has errors in it.

There is not three person god combined into one.

God is not a set of triplets.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
So, you avoid the questions again.

What a pitifully erroneous doctrine when the adherents cannot answer a simple question.

Here's another one.

Since Jesus said, "I can of myself do nothing" how does that indicate that he thought he was fully God?

What a pitifully unscriptural doctrine
As I said, you don't understand, comprehend, grasp, see or hear. I can't explain why you don't. I knew this as a child and I can see it in countless scriptures (all of which you ignore). I saw it before I ever went to the studies and writings that have been done throughout history by people smarter than you and I. There's no point in discussing it with you, your mind is closed. Have fun. :wave2:
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Another good Trinity Thread taken over by heretics.

Yes, but who are the heretics.

Too bad Jesus Christ would disagree with your conclusions.

You say he is fully God and knew it.

You say he is the all powerful God who created the heavens and the earth.

Have you not read the OT where God consistently declares how powerful He is that He does all things by His own counsel?

Yet,

Jesus says, "I can of myself do nothing"

If Jesus is God, then he is clearly contradicting everything he ever stated about himself in the OT.

Who then is the source of Jesus' wisdom and counsel and power? For clearly, it is not himself.

Clearly, his power and wisdom and counsel comes from God his Father and God.

The problem is that the trinitarian doctrine opposes the clear teachings of scripture.

The problem is that defenders of the trinity have to twist, ignore and discard and name call in order to "defend" their error

I can only speak of those things which I have seen and heard.

I ought to obey God rather than men.

Your world contradicts and rejects scripture, even the very words of Jesus Christ himself

I see you still avoid answering the simplest of questions about John 10:30

Your doctrine is so weak, so vile, you cannot answer my question about John 10:30
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
As I said, you don't understand, comprehend, grasp, see or hear. I can't explain why you don't. I knew this as a child and I can see it in countless scriptures (all of which you ignore). I saw it before I ever went to the studies and writings that have been done throughout history by people smarter than you and I. There's no point in discussing it with you, your mind is closed. Have fun. :wave2:

My mind is open to scripture.

Scripture like "I can of myself do nothing"

Jesus Christ himself contradicts your erroneous doctrine.

Seems to me, you should realize that Jesus lord, just like his God and Father is Lord over all, including Jesus Christ

God is the Lord God, His son is the lord Jesus Christ for the Father is greater than all.

Clearly, you and your comrades have lost your thinking caps and have put on the hat of pagan idol based threeeology.

Why not believe what Jesus said?

"I can of myself do nothing"

The longer I live, the less ego tistical I get for I realize that Jesus statement is true of me as well, for I can of myself do nothing either.

Jesus Christ humbly obeyed God unto death even the death of the cross, that is why God so highly exalted him. Philippians 2
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
My mind is open to scripture.

Scripture like "I can of myself do nothing"

Jesus Christ himself contradicts your erroneous doctrine.

Seems to me, you should realize that Jesus lord, just like his God and Father is Lord over all, including Jesus Christ

God is the Lord God, His son is the lord Jesus Christ for the Father is greater than all.

Clearly, you and your comrades have lost your thinking caps and have put on the hat of pagan idol based threeeology.

Why not believe what Jesus said?

"I can of myself do nothing"

The longer I live, the less ego tistical I get for I realize that Jesus statement is true of me as well, for I can of myself do nothing either.

Jesus Christ humbly obeyed God unto death even the death of the cross, that is why God so highly exalted him. Philippians 2
Isaiah 9:6 - For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.


Mattyhew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Isaiah 9:6 - For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.


Mattyhew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Could you come up with a scripture that supports your claims?

No, you cannot. I love those two verses. It tells us about what God named His son.

His name shall be called.

Your name is called "Jane"

Are you a girl?

Does your name make you a girl?

Does your name prove you are a girl?

You might act like one, but your name does not prove that you are.

Common sense, not guesswork and wishful thinking, is one key to understanding scripture.

God is with us, God was always with us, that is a truth.

If I name a son Emmanuel, does that mean my son is God? No, it does not.

Who do you think God would name his son after? Himself or the Devil?

Did your father pass his last name onto you? or did he choose another name so that you would not be associated with him? Was he so ashamed of you even before you were born that he did not give his name to you?

God foreknew what his son would accomplish, how he would choose and successfully live his life.

God named his son after himself and some of his attributes.

Why? to remind His son of two things, that God is his Father and that he had quite the name to live up to.

I takes only one reading of "I can of myself do nothing" to understand what he meant.

It does not take a rocket scientist or a Biblical scholar or an adherent of a particular threeeology to understand it.

It is so simple and plain a fool not need err therein, yet the trinitarians here seem to less than fools.

Full well you reject Jesus' own words that you might keep your traditions, traditions that contradict the truth of God's revealed word, His revealed logos, the written logos and the incarnate logos and himself the logos.

Why not take a break from trying to defend a defenseless theological position and go back to the scriptures with a willingness to read what is written without preconceived notions or trying to prove what you were told the scriptures say?

Clear your head of preconceived notions then read the scripture
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Is it possible that you are wrong?

I have been wrong about a lot of things and as I find them out I correct my thinking.

I am not a perfect believer and I do not have perfect understanding of all scripure, (quite an understatement if I may say so myself)

There are many subjects that I have not studied and adjusted my life and thinking to

BUT, on this subject, I am not wrong.

I was an adamant supporter of the trinity because I was taught the trinity by my teachers

But when I asked God to show me, He replied and I learned I Timothy 2:5

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

Have you ever read it?

It is so simple that a fool need not err.

One God

One mediator

men

the man

Who is the one mediator?

a. God

b. the man Christ Jesus

How could anyone, except they are deceiving and being deceived, reach any other conclusion.

With that verse, I learned that

God is God

and Christ Jesus is the man among men.

He understands the word and will of God and understands the challenges men face to believe God and live accordingly, because he is a man.

The man Christ Jesus, the man Christ Jesus is the mediator that God chose.

Did God make the right choice?

I believe God that He did.

Christ Jesus is a man, not God
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
My mind is open to scripture.

Scripture like "I can of myself do nothing"

Jesus Christ himself contradicts your erroneous doctrine.

Seems to me, you should realize that Jesus lord, just like his God and Father is Lord over all, including Jesus Christ

God is the Lord God, His son is the lord Jesus Christ for the Father is greater than all.

Clearly, you and your comrades have lost your thinking caps and have put on the hat of pagan idol based threeeology.

Why not believe what Jesus said?

"I can of myself do nothing"

The longer I live, the less ego tistical I get for I realize that Jesus statement is true of me as well, for I can of myself do nothing either.

Jesus Christ humbly obeyed God unto death even the death of the cross, that is why God so highly exalted him. Philippians 2

excellent, except Jesus was a man but is Spirit now.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
I have been wrong about a lot of things and as I find them out I correct my thinking.

I am not a perfect believer and I do not have perfect understanding of all scripure, (quite an understatement if I may say so myself)

There are many subjects that I have not studied and adjusted my life and thinking to

BUT, on this subject, I am not wrong.

I was an adamant supporter of the trinity because I was taught the trinity by my teachers

But when I asked God to show me, He replied and I learned I Timothy 2:5

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

Have you ever read it?

It is so simple that a fool need not err.

One God

One mediator

men

the man

Who is the one mediator?

a. God

b. the man Christ Jesus

How could anyone, except they are deceiving and being deceived, reach any other conclusion.

With that verse, I learned that

God is God

and Christ Jesus is the man among men.

He understands the word and will of God and understands the challenges men face to believe God and live accordingly, because he is a man.

The man Christ Jesus, the man Christ Jesus is the mediator that God chose.

Did God make the right choice?

I believe God that He did.

Christ Jesus is a man, not God

I like the quote from Jesus: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.””


I think the term God in Timothy refers to all the deities as God.
 

CherubRam

New member
Isaiah 9:6 - For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.


Mattyhew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Here is the correct translation.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulders: And he shall be called Wonderful Counselor of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father; (שַׂר / minister-ing) in peace.

שַׂר minister
 

CherubRam

New member
I like the quote from Jesus: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.””


I think the term God in Timothy refers to all the deities as God.

[FONT=&quot]Baptism in Matthew 28:19.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In regards to baptism in Matthew 28:19.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As for what the Congregation believed, read this: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:
Eusebius of Caesarea. 265 ? AD.– 337 ? AD.


[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. Eusebius informs us of Yahshua’s actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Quote: "With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all...

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And again Eusebius for example, in Book III of his History, Chapter 5, Section 2, which is about the Jewish persecution of early Christians, we read:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

"But the rest of the disciples, who had been incessantly plotted against with a view to their destruction, and had been driven out of the land of Judea, went to all nations to preach the good news, relying upon the power of Christ, who had said to them, "Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name."


[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And again, in his Oration in Praise of Emperor Constantine, Chapter 16, Section 8, we read:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

"What king or prince in any age of the world, what philosopher, legislator or prophet, in civilized or barbarous lands, has attained so great a height of excellence, I say not after death, but while living still, and full of mighty power, as to fill the ears and tongues of all mankind with the praises of his name?
Surely none save our only Savior has done this, when, after his victory over death, he spoke these words to his followers, and fulfilled it by that event, saying to them, "Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name."

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The scripture Eusebius is quoting is not what we read today. We do find that his quotes do agree with other scriptures.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Yahshua Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 8:16
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Yahshua.)

Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Yahshua.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Yahshua.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Yahshua Christ were baptized into his death?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
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